Castanet

jennylives wrote:I would hardly consider those cases worthy of calling them something science doesn't agree upon.

Well, your consideration doesn't change the fact that scientists don't agree on evolution - despite you observing it, apparently. Science is far from black and white as you portray it to be, and filled with unproven theories, controversies, politics, and outright lies.

Captain Awesome wrote:
So, I only believe in WW2, and don't actually know it took place?

That is partly right. It occurred because we know people (like my father) who were there. How it actually went down is a matter of opinion since we only have conflicting hearsay evidence. History is no different than science or religion because they are all in the hands of fallible and corruptible humans.

Captain Awesome wrote:

jennylives wrote:I would hardly consider those cases worthy of calling them something science doesn't agree upon.

Well, your consideration doesn't change the fact that scientists don't agree on evolution - despite you observing it, apparently. Science is far from black and white as you portray it to be, and filled with unproven theories, controversies, politics, and outright lies.

Yes, scientists do agree on evolution. That matter is settled. If there are a few wing nuts not accepting the vast amounts of evidence they don't get validity because they call themselves scientists. Evolution is no longer a debatable issue. Those who still challenge it are saying they don't understand it or are not willing to see past religious blinders. Yes, science is filled with controversies and not every issue is settled but evolution is not one of them.

Captain Awesome wrote:

jennylives wrote:I would hardly consider those cases worthy of calling them something science doesn't agree upon.

Well, your consideration doesn't change the fact that scientists don't agree on evolution - despite you observing it, apparently. Science is far from black and white as you portray it to be, and filled with unproven theories, controversies, politics, and outright lies.

I'd be really interested to hear what these unproven theories, controversies, politics and outright lies are. Please feel free to back up your statement.

Tick tock typical. It's really easy to make blanket statements and vague accusations, but when asked for clarification...nothing, nada, zip, zilch.

Perhaps he was talking evolution as in evolution vs creation. There is absolutely no solid proof as how a non-living primordial soup can produce a living cell, and how some of those cells went on to become trees, some became elephants, fish, etc. To say scientists agree on how that happened is absurd.

zzontar wrote:Perhaps he was talking evolution as in evolution vs creation. There is absolutely no solid proof as how a non-living primordial soup can produce a living cell, and how some of those cells went on to become trees, some became elephants, fish, etc. To say scientists agree on how that happened is absurd.

They would be arguing a different theory then because evolution does not encompass that step. A basic description is that evolution explains the diversity of species. The second part they do know. I recommend Dawkins' The Greatest Story Ever Told: The Evidence for Evolution if you'd like an easy reading understanding of it.

jennylives wrote:They would be arguing a different theory then because evolution does not encompass that step.

Why wouldn't it? If you believe everything evolved from something then it should.

The fact of evolution itself is not debated much in the scientific community anymore, but the process is so complex it is not completely understood, not even close.

Captain Awesome wrote:
"Well, your consideration doesn't change the fact that scientists don't agree on evolution - despite you observing it, apparently. Science is far from black and white as you portray it to be, and filled with unproven theories, controversies, politics, and outright lies."

"Mr Danksworth
I'd be really interested to hear what these unproven theories, controversies, politics and outright lies are. Please feel free to back up your statement.

I'm sorry, but you wouldn't be a very well read or educated person if you didn't realize that science is and has always been a work in progress containing (along with proven and established facts) plenty of theories which have been completely discredited by science itself, not to mention as yet unproved theories, sometimes swayed by politics, and/or in the back pocket of other wealthy and influential interest groups. But honestly, I doubt that you yourself are really that naive so I don't mean that as a put-down, just a general observation.

jennylives wrote: Evolution is no longer a debatable issue.

and yet even outside of religious influence it continues as new evidence is uncovered to tweak theories.

There are two obvious examples of evolution that have occured in my lifetime.
Perhaps the most obvious is the emergence of drug resistant bacteria.
Another is the evolution of a group of birds I forget the species, One group of these birds migrates south from England every winter, another group stays because it is fed by English bird feeders. There is now a genetic difference in the two groups.

In many ways fanatical believers and equally fanatical non-believers are cut from the same cloth. They are both incapable of accepting that there are things that we just don't know, that both fanatical belief and fanatical denial of those beliefs are unprovable concepts in an absolute sense.

steven lloyd wrote:

jennylives wrote: Evolution is no longer a debatable issue.

and yet even outside of religious influence it continues as new evidence is uncovered to tweak theories.

The mechanics are still being hammered out and the implications understood and put to use. That it is occurring is not. Evolution is a theory in the same way gravity is.

Nibs wrote:There are two obvious examples of evolution that have occured in my lifetime.
Perhaps the most obvious is the emergence of drug resistant bacteria.
Another is the evolution of a group of birds I forget the species, One group of these birds migrates south from England every winter, another group stays because it is fed by English bird feeders. There is now a genetic difference in the two groups.

This is another http://myxo.css.msu.edu/ecoli/