The problem with church

[Thinktank]

In church they remind us a hundred times a year, we are all born into the world with sinful natures.

There are people in church who are trying too hard to be good people - they try so hard they
become fanatical.

And there are also people in every church that aren't trying to be good. They're hpocrites. Jerks. Rip off artists.

So, when the preacher tells ALL the people in church, they are 'sinful' and must 'repent, this causes problems.
It causes the fanatic to become even more fanatical, maybe even losing his mind and potentiall doing something
that could be disastrous. And meanwhile, the hypocrite - he just keeps on going about being a hypocrite.
A thousand people praying wouldn't shake the hypocrite from doing the things he does. So that's why I believe church
needs to change the way they do things. They need to seperate the people. The really good in one church. and the jerks in another church. They can't be together, with the preacher telling them they are all born in sin.

[Hmmm]

That's not my experience. Go to a different church.

[Thinktank]

All churches would be the same.



.

[Thinktank]

when a preacher tells his congregation

YOU ARE ALL BORN WITH A SINFUL NATURE

it's like having the whole school, from grade one to grade twelve meet
in the gymnasium, and the principal tells them all

YOU ALL CAN'T DO MATH.


.

[grammafreddy]

when a preacher tells his congregation

YOU ARE ALL BORN WITH A SINFUL NATURE

it's like having the whole school, from grade one to grade twelve meet
in the gymnasium, and the principal tells them all

YOU ALL CAN'T DO MATH.


.

Actually, I think its worse than that.

I call it child abuse.

Its how they brainwash people - get them at the earliest possible age and convince them they are born sinning - and that only their church, their god, their way will ever get them into their heaven. To do otherwise damns the kids to a life of terror with the concept that they will go to hell and burn forever.

[Thinktank]

I call it child abuse.

Everyone, from crooks, honest, children, retired people, nice, bad,
two-faced back stabbers etc. THEY ARE ALL IN THE SAME CHURCH
listening to the same sermon, and I know for a fact, it could be hard on some children.




.

[Glacier]

when a preacher tells his congregation

YOU ARE ALL BORN WITH A SINFUL NATURE

it's like having the whole school, from grade one to grade twelve meet
in the gymnasium, and the principal tells them all

YOU ALL CAN'T DO MATH.


.

Hold it right there cowboy. Do you have children? Did you know that children are pretty much born to lie, cheat, steal, etc. Good parents try to train these things out of their children.

I can see why your analogy works for you. Born a sinner? So what, I was also born dumb, naked, and bad at MATH, but that doesn't mean I can't learn how to dress myself before getting out of bed to post on Castanet.

[Thinktank]

Hold it right there cowboy.

Let me explain it more clearly so you will be able to understand:

Judas was a rat. He liked money. I never met the guy, but he probably
liked money more than anything else. He also somehow weaseled his way amongst
a group of guys who were hanging around with Jesus and at least 'trying' to be good.

I have a serious problem with a group of religious people going all 'religious' and singing songs,
and saying hundreds of prayers a week, and raising their hands in the air when they pray out loud,
and these religious people aren't 'exactly' as holy as they are pretending to be - but the one crook amongst them
isn't even close to being holy, because HE LOVES MONEY.

So yes, everyone is born sinful nature. But no, we don't need to be told repeatedly by a preacher
that we are sinful, while a crook just like Judas is sitting right there in church beside us.



.

[Hmmm]

Let me explain it more clearly so you will be able to understand:

Judas was a rat. He liked money. I never met the guy, but he probably
liked money more than anything else. He also somehow weaseled his way amongst
a group of guys who were hanging around with Jesus and at least 'trying' to be good.

I have a serious problem with a group of religious people going all 'religious' and singing songs,
and saying hundreds of prayers a week, and raising their hands in the air when they pray out loud,
and these religious people aren't 'exactly' as holy as they are pretending to be - but the one crook amongst them
isn't even close to being holy, because HE LOVES MONEY.

So yes, everyone is born sinful nature. But no, we don't need to be told repeatedly by a preacher
that we are sinful, while a crook just like Judas is sitting right there in church beside us.



.

Have you ever heard the expression: "You don't even know, what you don't know"? Your argument, is like listening to a child discuss brain surgery, with a Harvard trained surgeon.

My guess is you don't have anything else to do and wanted to start the "bash the church" thread back up, and your, not well thought out statements are just to stir the pot.

Either that or there are some major issues going on here. Keep in mind I'm not defending the churches, but your LARGE BRUSH is unintelligible at best. Same with yours GF. Where did you people get these anyway?

[Thinktank]

could you explain what you mean?


.

[grammafreddy]

Same with yours GF. Where did you people get these anyway?

Where didya get yours?

Are you denying that religions threaten and scare children into swallowing the kool-aid?

[Hmmm]

Where didya get yours?

Are you denying that religions threaten and scare children into swallowing the kool-aid?

I dislike many things about religions but I have specific things for them, where as I'm reading comments from you and others that don't apply to some, if not many. It would be easier to discuss specific issues that relate to a particular religion then the ultra wide brush that is being used and doesn't apply in many cases.

Your statement about hellfire is one of them. I am also positive that you as well as thinktank have not spent any time in most churches but in fact maybe only one or two. There are 1000's of variations you know.

Like i said already, I'm not defending the churches, I actually really don't like them, but for different reasons, specific to their actual religion.

[cliffy1]

Children are born innocent. They learn everything they know from adults and older children. We train our children with the reward and punishment fear based method. We domesticate them just like a dog or any other domestic animal.
Children are not born in sin, they are born into a sinful world full of hypocrites. Adults are not hypocrites because they act one way and say something opposite. They are hypocrites because they can never live up to the outrageous ideals of religion. They try really hard to be good but it is just not in our nature to just be good, we are both light and dark, yin and yang. Fear of retribution may hold the yang at bay for a while, but sooner or later we have to give into our basic instincts. It is just who we are. Religion teaches us to not love ourselves because we are not perfect or worthy, but I say we are perfect just the way we are, warts and all. Self hatred is the only sin.

[zzontar]

Same with yours GF. Where did you people get these anyway?

Where didya get yours?

Are you denying that religions threaten and scare children into swallowing the kool-aid?

No Gramma, people made those kids drink Kool-Aid. If religion makes people drink poison Kool-Aid, then you'd get your wish and there wouldn't be any religious people left. If you think there aren't parents who scare and abuse their kids so much they'd do anything not to get that next beating without religion being involved, you're fooling yourself.

[grammafreddy]

Are you denying that religions threaten and scare children into swallowing the kool-aid?

No Gramma, people made those kids drink Kool-Aid. If religion makes people drink poison Kool-Aid, then you'd get your wish and there wouldn't be any religious people left. If you think there aren't parents who scare and abuse their kids so much they'd do anything not to get that next beating without religion being involved, you're fooling yourself.

I didn't mean THAT Kool-aid in particular, just the religious kool-aid in general. But the parents' religious beliefs made them give their kids THAT Kool-aid and made them drink it themselves.

Sure, there are all kinds of parents who abuse their children in all kinds of ways. Using religion to do it doesn't make it any righter, though.

Do you think terrorizing kids using religion is acceptable?