Near death experiences the new religion?

[BelieveNothing]

This is one of my all time favorite subjects!

I agree that the near death experience, when studied, does not seem to indicate the majority to be religious in nature.

There are so many similarities from so many varied personalities and backgrounds that it can be astonishing and very encouraging the stories that are relayed from the NDE ers.

In studying NDE's I have come to discover for myself that we can have similar experiences through our dream state as well as through astral travel.

Again, best topic ever! Thank you for the link to the NDE accounts!

[spiritualteachers]

It is interesting for sure! I've seen many spontanious nde like experiences. I haven't heard of any astral travel experiences that were like NDE's though I don't really look them up guess I should!

[BelieveNothing]

It is to my understanding that leaving the dense form of the body while astral travelling is similiar but not exactly the same as the nde, when travelling in the astral world we get a glimps of what it is to be alive without the density that we currently live within. The death experience seems even much more profound and the experience of oneness and joy are exemplified. Not the same but similiar.

[A_Britishcolumbian]

when i first saw this thread, i chuckled at the title, but i admit i was curious, and have checked in more than once.

i had no thought to enter the discussion, but since it seems i have been invited :)

ndes in relation to 'religion'. i think of religion somewhat different than most i suspect, but within the common parameters of at least one dictionary definition, and that is as actions, what one does. what one does and chooses to do is of course based on beliefs and principles, which may be more of the cliche definition of 'religion', but i term 'philosophy'.

a nde as well is a matter of perspective. i cannot recall any nde i have experienced that resembles anything like what cliffy1 speaks of, rather mine have been more of the variety of realizing that a force beyond my conscious understanding has influenced me to take, prevent or cease actions that have subsequently preserved my life, and as well realize how imminent and real my possible death was.

i have as well prevented the deaths of others, or seen the very close calls of others, that they themselves have been unaware of. so while they have had a nde, they did not actually perceive it. ignorance is bliss they say.

i cannot see any similarity/relationship between astral tavel and a nde myself, except in one very profound and famous sense, the temptations of christ, and then only if you consider those to be examples of astral travel. they are certainly ndes.

and with that reference i come to my original thoughts when i saw this thread, if ndes are a component of some religious belief or quest, then i will suggest that is a dark religion/philosophy.

with respect to cliffy1's signature, i will end this post with a selection of the gospel according to my dutch uncle, dave mustaine.

Now before they take me
And my blessed life
Now you'll know why Deth
Was summoned here tonight
I'll recall my perils
They'll kill me in pride
No, I can't run away
There's no place to hide
Though too much to live for
I owe enough to die
Ask not for salvation
My Deth shall mean their lives
Hatred and guilt the altar they've built
High priests of sin
Destiny, fate the wicked ones' gate
Beckoning you in
Beckoning you in

Down the walkways
Through the blood stained town
Looking down the cross
Bleeding from the crown
Led to stay
To die besides the thieves
Kill the king
Of the world to be
And now to you, this will come
A putrefying pestilence
More noxious than the serpents' breath
Malevolently destined
More corrupt than the malice of Choronzon
More disease than the wind
Of the moonlight sun
Putrification you have caused
No need for confession
Now you wish you had a gun to stop your demolition
Crush the bones of the hundred fold
Swinging the judgment hammer
Man, woman, child no-one is safe
The heads of the dead are the banner

And this was all you got
So don these broken wings
Sands of time run out
Bells of Hades ring
Is this a nightmare
To unhallow thy name
Smell of brimstone
Dancing in the flames
No help now
As you fulfill his task
Chief of evil
Has got you by the *bleep*
Set free
To sit upon the throne
Just a dream?
You're weeping all alone

Looking down the cross
(Speak no evil)
I'm looking down the cross
(Speak no evil)

[BelieveNothing]

Not all near death experiencers have an out of body experience, many do. Those who have died and then been brought back to life sometime have experiences to share about death being an illusion and often filled with peace, love and often a life review. Others have experienced pain and fear. The experience that those who have died and lived to tell about it often return with a new sense of being and purpose for being here on earth. Nde type experiences can also occur from the imminent threat of death.

It sounds somwhat as though you, abritishcolumbian view death is an unwelcome experience in the process we call life?

[A_Britishcolumbian]

what i am presenting as a possibility, is that in that altered or unusual state of consciousness of a nde, it is then that dark forces take advantage of the opportunity to 'tempt' the subject.

as i hinted toward, Choronzon, has a long history of doing just that, and what do you know, she pops up again upon my mention.

please excuse the sketchy grammar, it is a translation.

A vibration over the threshold
Posted on May 13, 2014· In the dark light ·
of Danilo Arona

(Preface to the book by Mauro D'Angelo The Black Goddess, Atmosphere Editions, 2013)

As evidenced by his friend Mauro D'Angelo in a passage of his precious this manual, since the dawn of humanity has recorded in various and disparate forms a constant surreptitious and subliminal influence from the Black Goddess Lilitu and its antithetical groom Pazuzu . Question in the case of you, of forms and figures (Imago), which are always to be the antithesis, color and vibration, the accommodating - and secondary - female functions that too many companies in the West as in the East, relegated into the background embody the cliché of convenience in which the woman is impoverished of any real decision-making power.

Quoting Mauro, striking analogy almost devastating: the growing phenomenon that took the news with the term "femicide" could be interpreted as an attack deep masculine "mass" all'imago subliminal Lilitu, perceived as a threat because of the Your message carnal and liberating. Back to mind a fundamental study of 1982 American Jungian analyst drafted Bradley A. Te Paske, The rite of rape (Red Editions, 1987), in which the odious and abhorrent crime is substantially redefined as Archetype attack, aimed at destroy the eternal and all-encompassing image of the feminine mystery.

But the appearance, almost par paradox more interesting, the relationship between humanity and their "connections" with Lilitu and Pazuzu (archetypes sexually differentiated invisible deity living in that size only in recent times has taken quantum physics to analyze) D'Angelo is the one that takes into account in the section entitled "The Image Subliminal". And in one step, which we consider at the same time very significant and a little '"our", the author points out that, in the course of time, many "dwellers in the vicinity of the Threshold" have attempted to transmute energies and visions in the form otherwise otherwise perceptible. A brilliant insight that Mauro well summarizes in the following sentences that carry over into their essential wholeness:

"Probably, those who preceded us, has deliberately attempted to synthesize a chance in this sense, namely, to give a visible form to" things "that were noticeable only by particular states of altered consciousness, but that somehow escaped from ordinary logic. Then to honor all those who in time, between light and shadow, helped organized a trace of their "Visions" through their art and their science, because this has enabled generations that have passed in the centuries that followed, can experiment and in some cases, add or refine elements of interest to shareholders Magic / cultic collective. Regardless of the intrinsic value possessed by these artifacts, it is therefore no doubt that their symbolic language, to date, represent objectively the most acceptable form of interaction between the celebrant and the same occult forces. This is mainly the reason why we have always seen in the combination of art and science, the main way able to define the spatial structure of the inhabitants of the invisible. "

I think in this regard to be a part, no doubt, of the list (to be filled out maybe one day I will dedicate myself) of Visionaries and occasionally connected. The figure of Pazuzu attracted me since its first appearance on the scene of mass culture. A film based on a book, in the early seventies, which is not the case even mention the title. Since then, the grifagna obsession has taken root well in areas chthonic of my imagination. I produced several works related to its nomen Power: The Shadow of the winged god , Pazuzu, Jay.rtf, The return of Jay , Pazuzu: wings over the abyss , for not doing what I'm concerned no distinction between fiction and nonfiction, a break for those who, like me, grew up (also) on the limen of the fantastic realism of Pauwels and Bergier ( The morning of the magicians is a book that never finishes reading - who owns it, you know what I mean ...), has no sense. And others I have in Serbia.

In these dives in contact, often almost visual, with the Archetype, I have acquired the belief that nature connectivist of what Mauro calls "subliminal vision" is of type vibration. And 'course, not just my intuition, endorsed by the artist Roberto Cuoghi such that, in the course of his identification with the ancient Assyrians and their beliefs, has repeatedly stumbled in Lilitu and Pazuzu, giving them shape the sound lamentation that Suillaku, I remember as a primordial experience, engaging all the senses, but only transmitted through the air from a circular set of boxes and columns of immense power: a functional set-up in the Castle of Rivoli, that you grabbed in the bowels and dragged you into a universe lysergic and old. A macro-vibration that I still carry inside.

Moreover Mauro does not hide that words and sounds, recurring rituals of communication with the Goddess, are primarily vibrational entities, sounds and phonemes that can open doors and "holes" through the neuroconnessioni. And this is perhaps the real magic. Images and sounds have their own specific intrinsic nature and vibrational energy.

The great initiates, especially those who were and who they are in spite of themselves, have had in the past and still have the constant perception of the presence of "things" around him. From what I know, Lilitu and Pazuzu are vibrationally entity perceived by many writers. Of those contemporaries who know are not authorized to speak. But among those that can be cited without problems include the names of still-living Lovecraft and William Peter Blatty.

I assume that it is not appropriate to recall the "who" of the famous writer of fantastic fiction Howard Phillips Lovecraft. Less known of his work, however, some methods are legendary rituals "vibrational" (for example, within the group "Black Snake" by Bertiaux) derived from his own work to get in touch with a "Universe B", where s' meet the "spirits of other worlds." Working with just the Necronomicon (fictional book that from a certain point came to life and there is now no doubt) between the entities that live in the Universe B, you may contact "usefully" the demon Choronzon, that you think may be invoked through a so-called "mass chaos", at least so say the adepts. But Choronzon is a name which we must dwell. If, in fact, on the one hand the scholar Stephen Sennitt associates the name of Choronzon, the same described as "one of the most complex of Western occultism," primitive archetype of the "wind devil who lives in the desert" - a hybrid that fuses the destroyer Set, fox Shugal (half the "male" of the Beast 666 - the other half is just Choronzon female) - and the same Pazuzu, more than an exegete of the Necronomicon Lovecraft launched the hunt for parallels to the suffragarne ' authenticity, comparing with the Sumerian pantheon of Lovecraft myths and magical thinking (the Magick ) Crowley, concluded that Choronzon, the huge "What" described in the short story The Dunwich Horror and the winged god Sumerian are in fact, always and everywhere, the same creature.

The story "connectionist" by William Peter Blatty with the imago of Pazuzu is surprising and yet offers the hypothesis vibrational side. Well-educated writer who trained at Georgetown University under the guidance of the Jesuit fathers, here's how Blatty recalls his (first?) Encounter with Pazuzu:

"During the sixties I was in Lebanon, where I worked for ' Information Service of the United States, and I had to go to Mosul to collect material for a weekly called The News Review . At the end of my assignment, I found myself with several hours to spend waiting Orient Express which was to take me back to Baghdad and I went to visit an archaeological site, where I saw the workers load an elevator with a large humanoid figure more or less like the statue Pazuzu of the film and spent the day mulling over what I could write about. So when I began to accumulate items for the novel, I found a picture of a statue of Pazuzu in a book of essays on the devil called Satan and wrote the Catholic order of the Desert Fathers. So I thought to use it exclusively in my mind of course, as the devil facing Merrin in a previous exorcism in Africa and that he will return to fight again The Exorcist . "

As I argued several years ago it The shadow of the winged god (the book that will come back soon in digital and new version), a vibration transpsychic Blatty could have led to a connection with the Archetype in a non-cognizable and non-temporal. The same sequence as Blatty described is exemplary in a particular phase and perhaps stressful of his life, the writer-writer (who usually worked on subjects bright and just after the worldwide success of The Exorcist will focus almost exclusively on horror themes) is not likely to be able to cope with the break in his unconscious archetypal content. You see a big statue like a demon and is struck to the point of mental process started right away about him. When he sees the true image of Pazuzu in a book of the "Fathers of the Desert", considered to have immediately found the "content" for the "form" psychoid, and so here is born the character "that Merrin has already faced in a previous exorcism took place in Africa and returns to fight it The Exorcist . " So is the archetype-Pazuzu constellation of elements that are proper, even from a historical and anthropological point of view. We would not want to go too far, but the possibility that Blatty so that subsequent authors of the film The Exorcist 2 - The Heretic (John Boorman and screenwriter William Goodhart) have drawn further and unknowingly by a intrapsychic reality, the so-called vibrational continuum , then it is not so bold. It Exorcist 2 the battleground between Merrin and Pazuzu is precisely Africa, an event he also reiterated Exorcist - The genesis of Renny Harlin and Dominion of Paul Schrader.

It would be interesting to listen to, with regard to the primary connection, all the artists who, in any capacity and level, with Pazuzu (and Lilitu) have chosen to engage. Why - so I concluded Shadow of the winged god - the entities that other part (so to speak ...), continue to carry on the collective mind of the world and the imaginary artistic charm ambiguous and unexplained which are not exempt from writers, directors , musicians and a few thousand individuals, men and women, whose vibrational energies are able to connect with those dimensions that we are trying to identify for years.

This is demonstrated even my presence here. Called by his friend Mauro to open, do not know how worthily, his important work, I feel part of a community that still lives a precarious self-awareness.

But this mass of individuals in the so-called "Subliminal Vision" is increasingly becoming dignity, first and foremost, and then recognition of study. Because each of the connected occasional aspires to true knowledge of the Dark Ancestral Forms.

http://www.carmillaonline.com/2014/05/1 ... ne-soglia/

[BelieveNothing]

I have heard stories of dark, negative forces being encountered by some...so that sounds like it would be accurate. The majority I have heard indicate an all powerful ever present all prevading light and love. There have been accounts in which an initial terrifying and dark experience occurs only to be transformed into a light and love filled experience.
As for the article....wow, much intellectualizing over what seems like some type of cultic practice. It was a task to stay with it to the end...and i dont think that person understands death.

[BelieveNothing]

Just to remain true to the op, i think near death experience can be used to awaken to our spirit and the realization of our authetic nature and the truth of life.

Once one is aware of their true nature and the true nature of life and death I believe they would live their lives religously according to their greater awareness.

As a religion in and of itself, I dont think so.

[A_Britishcolumbian]

a negative feeling during a nde may be just fear, or simply perspective. the light and 'positive' feelings would logically be more of the nature of the 'bound deceiver', the temptation. we of course do not get the accounts of those that choose not to return.

from the article i believe you can gather that demons have been seeking our worship for eons.

what does such worship garner for those that do? i will reference my preferred pulpiteer once again. his images may give one some insight into the nature of the templars and islamics among others.

Down fell the stars, as they
Splashed into the sea.
"Mi nomine Baphomet",
Come dance with me.
Sacrifice the virgins,
Spiritual rites.
Their master's time has come,
The moon is full tonight.

Drinking, dancing,
They worship, and toast
The devil, who's watching,
With demon's remote.
Fire, rising,
Racing in your blood.
Possessed, naive,
His service is done.

Bloody blasphemy.

Sinister's the word,
As the demon's take their fill.
An orgy's taking place,
Human blood will spill.
An act of worship,
As they conceive the ghouls.
Satan has their souls,
They sing pagan tunes.

The ceremony,
Is sure to be cursed.
They ask for his blessings,
But, down comes the worst.
Their bodies, soulless,
A corpse from the grave.
Their minds are helpless,
And, no-one can save
No-on can save them

[BelieveNothing]

Iam not sure if I am understanding the point that you are trying to make about NDE's and astral travel/ leaving the physical density behind.

I have learned that disembodied entities do exist, positive and negative entities.

It seems as though you might be speaking of demonic posession...? Demonic posession while outside of the physical body?

Please clarify...

[A_Britishcolumbian]

lets say one is in the state of a nde, able to pass from the physical to the ethereal. obviously most are out of place at that time and unfamiliar with the 'atmosphere'. i am suggesting that it is at that time that dark forces choose specifically to tempt one to their dark side, take them to hell.

scaring a person with visions of hell is hardly tempting, and so 'positive' images and feelings are presented, temptation.

the nature of death, is of course critical to this discussion. we have accounts of people that choose to return, or simply do return. we of course do not have accounts of people that do not return, to this physical realm. where did the others go to?

heaven, the afterlife, or whatever spiritual realm you may imagine would seem to be populated by by beings of both positive/light and negative/dark forces.

we have the accounts, feelings and theories of many, many people over millennia. lilith and other like her seem to stalk the borders of our perceived reality as fallacious recruiters like a pimp at a bus stop.

[BelieveNothing]

As in life so in death.

I personally do not believe that there is anything to be afraid of in death, I believe the less one fears the greater the experience will be.

To be discerning in death is just as important as being discerning in life.

Its a continuous journey...

[BelieveNothing]

The temptation you speak of is a difficult twist to throw in to the mix... what is temptation really?

[A_Britishcolumbian]

temptation, obviously related to want, hope, desire and other evil and weak occupations.

i do wonder, what good there could be in dying before one's time? dave and others suggest nothing, if one's 'soul' is condemned to 'hell' and the torment of dark 'masters'/captors.

whereas if one astral travels, or communes with spirits on one's own terms, with the freedom to choose one's own coming and going, then all the power to you.

[BelieveNothing]

Other weak and evil occupations... makes me chuckle :)

I think it is ok to be human... and I do believe that to error is human... perhaps temptation is nothing but choice, one choice will result in loving joyful experience and the other negative painful experience. Perhaps it is about learning and growth as a soul... these temptations, perhaps they are not as evil as you might suspect.

I do not believe in eternal damnation and suffering, it could be a real thing.... I do not know.

I do know that there does exist a light, a light beyond the need to understand, the need to rationalize, a light that is home.
I do not believe in the light, I know the light.

I am of the understanding that an experience of death is different in nature than astral travelling, I am only speculating from my own experience but I get the impression that there are varying dimensions to existence... astral travel would occur on the astral level whereas I think death occurs on another level, a deeper level... a more whole and complete level.

No good in dying before ones time... I don't believe that occurs, actually.

I think that people die when they are meant to die, this is why many are sent back in what would seem like a miraculous recovery from very serious injury or illness.

It is hard for me to believe in masters that will forever torment someone's soul..... if so, is there no path to liberation and freedom?

It seems that Dave is possessed by demons or drugs... something...

When we astral travel we are not dead... our body still functions...however in a clinically dead person there is no function of the body maintained.

There are big difference between the two... I think the astral projection is a glimpse of what death will be to some degree.