Atheists in the Okanagan.

Is there a god? What is the meaning of life?

Re: Atheists in the Okanagan.

Postby averagejoe » May 31st, 2017, 2:09 pm

Abraham Lincoln as he is Greeted by George Washington Among a Host of Angels (Woman with wings...)

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Ecclesiastes 10:2 A wise man's heart is at his right hand; but a fool's heart at his left.
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Re: Atheists in the Okanagan.

Postby Poindexter » May 31st, 2017, 6:29 pm

What! No painting of Reagan getting the golden ticket? You're slipping Joe. :biggrin:

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Re: the problem is...

Postby youjustcomplain » Jun 1st, 2017, 1:26 pm

Glacier wrote:Ironically enough, when confronted with the correct information, most atheists will use mental gymnastics to cling to their stupid beliefs about what they think the Bible says about unicorns, and instead just pretend they never said what they did by deleting their posts.


Most atheists? I won't doubt that you've spoken with a huge number of us, but you actually found that most atheists are basing their lack of belief in god on a belief in something else?

I won't argue that you're wrong. I just haven't met any atheists who don't believe in god because they believe in something else instead.

Take god out of it though. Atheism has nothing to do with the bible. Two different things. The bible remains in conflict with reality and some of those conflicts can be explained as has been done here; translation issues between hebrew and english. I'll give you that point. I've never read the bible. I know very little about it. The book actually has nothing to do with my lack of belief in a god or gods though.
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Re: the problem is...

Postby Glacier » Jun 1st, 2017, 2:41 pm

youjustcomplain wrote:Most atheists? I won't doubt that you've spoken with a huge number of us, but you actually found that most atheists are basing their lack of belief in god on a belief in something else?

Perhaps not most, but definitely a lot, especially among those who post online. Most atheists probably just go about their life, but the ones who post online come across as extremely ignorant. (#NotAll)

Check out what GalaxyzAway posted on the previous page. Well, I'm not sure you can check now since he was so embarrassed by his ignorance they would rather just delete all evidence than admit that he didn't know what he was talking about. The keyboard atheists don't seem to be the type that actually want to learn anything new. It's as if some minor error on their part will devastate their confidence that they're overarching theory is correct. I just don't get it. We all make mistakes and believe things to be true that aren't, but the most vocal among atheists will never admit they're wrong about anything.

In another thread, an atheist posted what can only be described as the dumbest and most inaccurate meme I've ever seen in my life. I challenged him on it, and pointed out some errors with it, and guess what, he doubled down as did other atheists in the thread.

Now, there's a theist in that thread (and this one too) that posts a lot of theistic nonsense, and I've called him out on it a few times, but to no avail. Clearly atheists don't hold a monopoly on irrationality and doubling down, but I find the reaction from atheists more contemptible because they claim to be the rational and scientific ones while posting in the most unscientific way possible.

Okay, now that I've said all that, there are some atheists such as yourself who show humility and readily admit what is known and unknown. We just need you posting more and a few others posting less, which I supposed if they've deleted their accounts means they will do just that.
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Re: the problem is...

Postby youjustcomplain » Jun 2nd, 2017, 8:09 am

Glacier wrote:
youjustcomplain wrote:Most atheists? I won't doubt that you've spoken with a huge number of us, but you actually found that most atheists are basing their lack of belief in god on a belief in something else?

Perhaps not most, but definitely a lot, especially among those who post online. Most atheists probably just go about their life, but the ones who post online come across as extremely ignorant. (#NotAll)

Check out what GalaxyzAway posted on the previous page. Well, I'm not sure you can check now since he was so embarrassed by his ignorance they would rather just delete all evidence than admit that he didn't know what he was talking about. The keyboard atheists don't seem to be the type that actually want to learn anything new. It's as if some minor error on their part will devastate their confidence that they're overarching theory is correct. I just don't get it. We all make mistakes and believe things to be true that aren't, but the most vocal among atheists will never admit they're wrong about anything.

In another thread, an atheist posted what can only be described as the dumbest and most inaccurate meme I've ever seen in my life. I challenged him on it, and pointed out some errors with it, and guess what, he doubled down as did other atheists in the thread.

Now, there's a theist in that thread (and this one too) that posts a lot of theistic nonsense, and I've called him out on it a few times, but to no avail. Clearly atheists don't hold a monopoly on irrationality and doubling down, but I find the reaction from atheists more contemptible because they claim to be the rational and scientific ones while posting in the most unscientific way possible.

Okay, now that I've said all that, there are some atheists such as yourself who show humility and readily admit what is known and unknown. We just need you posting more and a few others posting less, which I supposed if they've deleted their accounts means they will do just that.


About the only thing that atheists have in common is their lack of belief in god. Outside of that, they're speaking on their beliefs. I think it's important that everyone recognize that. For instance, atheism doesn't tell me I need to believe in the big bang, evolution through natural selection or any of that. I believe those things to be true, but that's not my atheism talking.

You're right. Online, there are quite a few atheists who way over reach when they talking as if they're smarter than theists and invoke some strawman argument to tell us what theists believe then try and disprove it. It's actually really embarrassing; or should be. I've often wondered if people who write like that ever look back at it realize their ignorance.

To all the arrogant atheists out there, god(s) can't be disproved. Stop trying.
(that is my public service announcement for the day)

The meme you linked to. What a joke. It's almost like a theist wrote it for ignorant atheists to pick up and demonstrate their stupidity.

You got it. I'm full of humility. I'm not as astro physicist, so I make no claims of understanding the big bang theory. I'm not an evolutionary biologist, so I make no claims of understanding evolution by natural selection. But, I do *believe* that both theories are our best model to describe how the universe was created and how live began on earth. I realize others have a different view, which is ok, but I don't understand it. What I find frustrating is that other atheists feel that they can debunk god(s) with talk of black holes and apes, yet have as much an understanding on the subjects as I do... (far from enough to speak educatedly on it). :)
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Re: Atheists in the Okanagan.

Postby davis123 » Jun 19th, 2017, 1:13 pm

This is quite the interesting thread, too bad I never noticed it earlier. So many arrogant comments were made throughout, by Christians and Atheists, but it seems the atheists were challenged the most in regard to what they believe in or to prove that gods don't exist. Props go to hmmm for the most arrogant comment of all, a few pages back.

I think Christians and any religion that believes in a god, need to learn that "atheism" is simply a word describing someone who doesn't believe in a god. That is the one standard atheists have in common. Atheism is not a religion, we don't follow a "guide book" to become a better atheist (whatever that might be). We simply don't believe in god. That is where our common beliefs end on that subject. Oh sure you might find websites like 'Atheists Unite' or something like that, there are always going to be outspoken people on every subject, and yes I am sure there are atheists who think they are the 'better' people because they feel they are right and all others' are wrong. Who doesn't know someone like this? The guy at work, who thinks he knows more than everyone? Your brother/sister/friend who rants on and on again believing what THEY believe is the right way? This type of person is everywhere, arrogant fools is what they are. Doesn't matter what the topic is, their response will always be arrogant. It's their personality, not their religion.

Why do people become atheists?

Well, this answer would be different for every single atheist, same goes for people that choose to follow/believe in a religion. For myself, my family is not religious, never was. I was open to listening to/or believing other possibilities however, but in my +40 years of life I have never heard one stitch of concrete evidence that any god exists, so I don't believe. I also wouldn't believe there were dinosaurs if we didn't have dinosaur bones to prove otherwise. But like someone stated earlier, maybe jennylives, we were all born as atheists, if you are religious somebody taught you that religion, you didn't just magically start believing in something you knew nothing about.

Atheists want concrete proof, simple as that. There is nothing wrong with demanding concrete proof if someone wants us to believe what they are telling us. If you can't offer that proof then don't be so arrogant to think we should follow you blindly with your beliefs, that is within your personality to follow a faith that doesn't have any concrete proof. Our personality demands to SEE proof. And don't be so arrogant to think we HATE gods because we are atheist. There are NO gods to us. We don't hate, we want proof is all. You have no proof= we won't believe it exists. If you tell me I won the lottery, I am not going to believe I won until I see the money.

Now, atheists need to be respectful of religious persons faith as well, and stop asking the questions, such as SHOW ME PROOF, because that is what faith is, believing in something WITHOUT PROOF.
Faith:
strong belief in God or in the doctrines of a religion, based on spiritual apprehension rather than proof.


I'll be the first to admit, in the past when christians have challenged my atheism I would certainly come back with a comment like 'show me proof' or making the comparison of the bible to harry potter or some other fantasy like unicorns. An atheist is not going to believe any of your 'beliefs' without proof, you can't offer any proof, so the subject is best left off the table for discussion, because we will NEVER agree on the topic. Both sides need to be respectful, christians don't teach your kids to ask their classmates if they believe in god and then have your kid attack the kids that are atheist, with comments like you're going to burn in hell, etc. Keep your religion at home or in the church! And atheists don't teach your kids to ridicule christian kids either, you want respect then earn it and don't act like idiots!

So, as all the above suggests this is a merry-go-round of back and forth, and is the reasoning why religion doesn't belong in government/school/etc. If you are going to include some religions in government/school/etc. then you need to include ALL religions, certainly Christians can't be so arrogant to think that only their religion should be in government, etc? Now, there are what, like 1000's of gods apparently, so do we re-write things to include the 1000's of gods or do we just remove ALL religious affiliations altogether? Obviously removing all religious affiliations is the ONLY way to stop the endless bickering on the subject of religion. Times have changed and it is time to remove religion from everything except your hobbies, home life, etc. I don't care if you are religious, you don't care if I am not religious, so why have this planted so firmly in our society/government/schooling/etc?

For years I have been saying we need a school curriculum overhaul, and that includes adding a Religious History class beginning in Kindergarten, in that class I would like to see EVERY SINGLE religion discussed, and continue that Religion History class up until graduation. This would help all students learn about all religions/atheism/agnostic and they would be free to use that knowledge to decide on their own what path they want to follow. Christians and other religions MUST admit they brainwash their children and feed them the parents religious beliefs from the moment the baby is born, how about allowing your children to make that choice on their own once they are armed with the knowledge of EVERY single religion out there?
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Re: Atheists in the Okanagan.

Postby Glacier » Jun 19th, 2017, 3:53 pm

Religious history would be Islamophobic.
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Re: Atheists in the Okanagan.

Postby youjustcomplain » Jun 20th, 2017, 9:23 am

davis123 wrote:I think Christians and any religion that believes in a god, need to learn that "atheism" is simply a word describing someone who doesn't believe in a god. That is the one standard atheists have in common. Atheism is not a religion, we don't follow a "guide book" to become a better atheist (whatever that might be). We simply don't believe in god. That is where our common beliefs end on that subject. Oh sure you might find websites like 'Atheists Unite' or something like that, there are always going to be outspoken people on every subject, and yes I am sure there are atheists who think they are the 'better' people because they feel they are right and all others' are wrong. Who doesn't know someone like this? The guy at work, who thinks he knows more than everyone? Your brother/sister/friend who rants on and on again believing what THEY believe is the right way? This type of person is everywhere, arrogant fools is what they are. Doesn't matter what the topic is, their response will always be arrogant. It's their personality, not their religion.

Nailed it ! :)

davis123 wrote:Why do people become atheists? [/b]
Well, this answer would be different for every single atheist, same goes for people that choose to follow/believe in a religion. For myself, my family is not religious, never was. I was open to listening to/or believing other possibilities however, but in my +40 years of life I have never heard one stitch of concrete evidence that any god exists, so I don't believe. I also wouldn't believe there were dinosaurs if we didn't have dinosaur bones to prove otherwise. But like someone stated earlier, maybe jennylives, we were all born as atheists, if you are religious somebody taught you that religion, you didn't just magically start believing in something you knew nothing about.

I think you've asked the wrong question. People don't become atheists. They start that way. "Why do people return to atheism?" That is a question I'd be interested in. There was a thread, earlier this year I think in which the discussion turned into "are we both atheists?". I argued that we are because we aren't born knowing of a god; that is taught to us.

davis123 wrote:Atheists want concrete proof, simple as that. There is nothing wrong with demanding concrete proof if someone wants us to believe what they are telling us. If you can't offer that proof then don't be so arrogant to think we should follow you blindly with your beliefs, that is within your personality to follow a faith that doesn't have any concrete proof. Our personality demands to SEE proof. And don't be so arrogant to think we HATE gods because we are atheist. There are NO gods to us. We don't hate, we want proof is all. You have no proof= we won't believe it exists. If you tell me I won the lottery, I am not going to believe I won until I see the money.

I also disagree with your first assertion. I'm an atheist, (meaning, I don't believe in a god). It doesn't mean I require concrete proof of things. What is proof anyhow? I believe that the universe most likely started out with the big bang. I believe that black holes are real. I believe that live has evolved. There is a lot of evidence to support all three claims, and I chose to believe them because the theories are falsifiable, but have never been proven to be false; Not because I have concrete proof. I'm not an astrophysicist or an evolutionary biologist, but even if I was, I would still never claim to "know". I'd be working with evidence and coming up with theories.

davis123 wrote:So, as all the above suggests this is a merry-go-round of back and forth, and is the reasoning why religion doesn't belong in government/school/etc. If you are going to include some religions in government/school/etc. then you need to include ALL religions, certainly Christians can't be so arrogant to think that only their religion should be in government, etc? Now, there are what, like 1000's of gods apparently, so do we re-write things to include the 1000's of gods or do we just remove ALL religious affiliations altogether? Obviously removing all religious affiliations is the ONLY way to stop the endless bickering on the subject of religion. Times have changed and it is time to remove religion from everything except your hobbies, home life, etc. I don't care if you are religious, you don't care if I am not religious, so why have this planted so firmly in our society/government/schooling/etc?

For years I have been saying we need a school curriculum overhaul, and that includes adding a Religious History class beginning in Kindergarten, in that class I would like to see EVERY SINGLE religion discussed, and continue that Religion History class up until graduation. This would help all students learn about all religions/atheism/agnostic and they would be free to use that knowledge to decide on their own what path they want to follow. Christians and other religions MUST admit they brainwash their children and feed them the parents religious beliefs from the moment the baby is born, how about allowing your children to make that choice on their own once they are armed with the knowledge of EVERY single religion out there?

Agreed. Remove religion from government funded schools. But include education on religion. I don't agree that the education needs to touch on every religion or faith though. There have been too many to discuss, and different sects of current religions would take too long to understand, and there would be little value to the exercise. However, teaching about the major world religions of the past and of the present sounds like a good, mandatory education. If people want to know more, after taking that course, I'm sure they can find a lot more online.
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Re: Atheists in the Okanagan.

Postby OldIslander » Jun 20th, 2017, 10:29 am

Interesting thread... I have just browsed much of it.

I suspected as a 5 year old attending Sunday school, that most of what we were learning was BS. Two of every animal in the world on an arc, walking on water, parting seas, water into wine, rising from the dead – it just all sounded like crap. My opinion has not changed over the years. I very seldom discuss it with anyone – the coolest thing about not believing is that you don’t have to go to all those dang meetings.

Over the past 60 years, the suspicion that religion has done considerably more harm than good in this old world, has been proven over and over again, in my admittedly simple mind. Many wars and atrocities have been based on religion or some aspect of it.

Religion over the centuries, has attracted crooks who understand that people are like sheep and will follow someone with some charisma and a good yarn. Religion has always been an easy way for smart people to make some serious money without doing too much actual work. Jon Krakauer’s book, ‘Under the Banner of Heaven’, is a fascinating read about a convicted flim-flam man who almost 200 years ago, decided to invent a new religion. So he claimed to have been visited angels that only he could see, who gave him some golden tablets in a language that only he could understand, and over the next few years, he wrote a new bible. While it largely plagiarized the Christian bible – much of it word for word – it did include some cool new things, like being able to have multiple wives. (The author was a bit of a lady’s man, and this part may have been the driving force for the whole exercise.) As this new religion developed, if some part was not working out, the author would go out in a field, have a talk with God; then rewrite that portion of the new bible to his liking. This of course was Joseph Smith’s ‘Book of Mormon’, and Mormonism is now one of the most profitable churches in N. America – all tax free of course.

There are more Christians in the world, than any other single religion. Yet the Catholic church has been the root of a good deal of evil in this world, for the past 2,000 years. Even if I tended to believe in a higher power, I would sure steer clear of such a historically tainted organization.
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Postby Hermes » Jul 17th, 2017, 7:41 pm

... or Indra the heavens. So to that extent I, and everybody else is an atheist

On Mondays I am a polytheist, on Tuesdays a monist theist, on Thursdays I am a skeptic and on the weekend I am a Theravada Buddhist (atheist in the conventional understanding - are the gods important? We don't know and even if we did know, it doesn't matter)
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