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Have you ever experienced Divine Intervention?

Is there a god? What is the meaning of life?

Have you ever experienced Divine Intervention?

Postby spiritualteachers » Feb 12th, 2017, 12:39 pm

Here is a good example a girl saved from a wreck by what she believes was an angel.





Have you had any stories like this? Some people hear voices before strategy strikes.
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Re: Have you ever experienced Divine Intervention?

Postby youjustcomplain » Feb 14th, 2017, 11:13 am

So, let me get this straight....

A missionary wants viewers to believe she was saved by a wall of angels because she wasn't involved in a car accident, but saw bright lights.

I've driven at night before and have missed oncoming traffic, and their headlights were very bright. Must be angels.


I have no doubt that the driver hit the shoulder, (not the ditch), then over corrected into oncoming, and through her struggles, managed to straighten out before hitting the oncoming car. No guardian angel needs to be involved to explain it.

Makes me wonder how an atheist would have perceived this event? Would the atheist be convinced of divine interventions? Would the divine intervention not happen to an atheist? Would the atheist have a different, plausible, explanation?
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Re: Have you ever experienced Divine Intervention?

Postby Poindexter » Feb 14th, 2017, 1:21 pm

Can't speak for all atheists but I believe it's the epitome of arrogance to think that with all the horrific accidents causing death around the world, that a God would single you out as someone worth saving while allowing others to die.

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Re: Have you ever experienced Divine Intervention?

Postby zzontar » Feb 14th, 2017, 1:44 pm

Poindexter wrote:Can't speak for all atheists but I believe it's the epitome of arrogance to think that with all the horrific accidents causing death around the world, that a God would single you out as someone worth saving while allowing others to die.


Many people feel they have guardian angels or spirits watching out for them. These could also be referred to as ghosts, which many theists and atheists believe in. If a deceased relative is indeed a ghost, then one could assume they might have the power to move or manipulate objects which is completely different than God picking one person to save.
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Re: Have you ever experienced Divine Intervention?

Postby Poindexter » Feb 14th, 2017, 6:54 pm

Didn't know ghosts would be considered divine but personally I don't believe in ghosts either. The notion that dead friends and enemies are mucking around in our lives seems like something we should have more proof of by now. People with huge families should have legions of helping spirits and should never be in an accident. Conversly, lawyers would have legions of spirits trying to hurt them, thier day would be spent avoiding one accident after the other.

That being said I know plenty who believe in guardian angels and find them comforting. My mother credits most of what's happened good in her life to a dearly loved aunt who she feels watching over her. So I do see your point and hope youre right. Would actually be nice if one day guardian angels came with every car because we certainly could use them some days. :smt045

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Re: Have you ever experienced Divine Intervention?

Postby Thinktank » Feb 14th, 2017, 7:15 pm

Image
The guy in that vehicle survived.



I'm not going to listen to his talk, (don't enjoy it) but anyone who wants to - can. It's on topic.
Ukraine is broke, and undertook a war on that portion of the country that provided 30% of GDP. Now a draft, for an army, for a war, for a government that will - get this - implement IMF/EU *austerity*.
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Re: Have you ever experienced Divine Intervention?

Postby youjustcomplain » Feb 14th, 2017, 9:08 pm

zzontar wrote:Many people feel they have guardian angels or spirits watching out for them.

Doesn't make it true. Sometimes I feel like I'm the center of the universe.

zzontar wrote:These could also be referred to as ghosts, which many theists and atheists believe in.

You can refer to anything unproven to exist as whatever you want to. Just call it god. It's easier that way.

I'd bet you that theists are much more likely to believe in ghosts. Atheism is a lack of belief in god(s). If ghosts are gods, then atheists don't believe in them. If ghosts aren't gods, then being an atheist has nothing to do with belief in it. That said, typically, people who don't believe in god(s), don't do so because there is no reason to. Just like there is no reason to believe in ghosts. That's just me though I guess.

zzontar wrote:If a deceased relative is indeed a ghost, then one could assume they might have the power to move or manipulate objects which is completely different than God picking one person to save.

Ok, you're joking right? If a deceased relative could somehow also be a living spirit, why would we assume it would have the power to manipulate objects? Establish that my dead relatives are alive, then give some basis as to how they might also be moving stuff around.

Unlike Poindexter, I don't wish for this at all. It's just creepy.
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Re: Have you ever experienced Divine Intervention?

Postby youjustcomplain » Feb 14th, 2017, 9:12 pm

Thinktank wrote:The guy in that vehicle survived.


I don't see a guy in the vehicle, but I guess since he survived, he probably had something better to do that just sit there for the picture.

Take a look at cars from the 60's. They had big car accidents just like cars today. Are there just more guardian angels today keeping people alive through accidents or should we be crediting car manufacturers who produce much safer cars today?

Also, is that how the car looked after the accident or after rescue crews peeled the car off the driver? I've been to many car accidents where it doesn't look like much and there are critical injuries or death. And others that look horrific and the driver pulled themselves out, with only scratches and bruises. None of it speaks, to me, about angels or dead relatives.
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Re: Have you ever experienced Divine Intervention?

Postby zzontar » Feb 14th, 2017, 9:41 pm

youjustcomplain wrote: That said, typically, people who don't believe in god(s), don't do so because there is no reason to. Just like there is no reason to believe in ghosts. That's just me though I guess.


https://www.theatlantic.com/health/arch ... ts/379072/

A Harris poll from last year found that 42 percent of Americans say they believe in ghosts. The percentage is similar in the U.K., where 52 percent of respondents indicated that they believed in ghosts in a recent poll.


It looks like roughly half think there is a reason to believe in ghosts.
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Re: Have you ever experienced Divine Intervention?

Postby zzontar » Feb 14th, 2017, 9:45 pm

youjustcomplain wrote:Ok, you're joking right? If a deceased relative could somehow also be a living spirit, why would we assume it would have the power to manipulate objects?


I said we could assume it "might" have the power. There are countless stories of ghosts moving objects as well as many videos, but I'm guessing that unless you see it yourself, you'll believe everyone else is lying.
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Re: Have you ever experienced Divine Intervention?

Postby zzontar » Feb 14th, 2017, 9:50 pm

youjustcomplain wrote: If ghosts are gods, then atheists don't believe in them.


Out of curiousity, if an atheist saw a ghost and found out it was a god, what basis would they base their belief that they don't exist on?
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Re: Have you ever experienced Divine Intervention?

Postby Thinktank » Feb 15th, 2017, 8:06 am

When you have a church full of Christians, all trying to show they are as good as the next guy beside them - they sometimes lie.

Here's a guy who said his high blood pressure was cured by prayer and anointing with oil. Because he never went into detail - he never said how he changed his diet for the last eighteen months - I tend to not believe him.

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Bro Paul Brake

Eighteen months ago a nurse checked my blood pressure. It was 202 over 103. That is considered stage 4 hypertension.
I obeyed James 5:14-16. I called the elders of the church and had them pray over me anointing me with oil in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ. Today I had to take a medical for work. My blood pressure was 140 over 80 which is considered normal for my age.


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Re: Have you ever experienced Divine Intervention?

Postby youjustcomplain » Feb 15th, 2017, 8:14 am

zzontar wrote:It looks like roughly half think there is a reason to believe in ghosts.


And much more than that believe in a god. What does that tell us? People chose what they want to believe in. It has little/nothing to do with facts or truth.
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Re: Have you ever experienced Divine Intervention?

Postby youjustcomplain » Feb 15th, 2017, 8:16 am

zzontar wrote:I said we could assume it "might" have the power. There are countless stories of ghosts moving objects as well as many videos, but I'm guessing that unless you see it yourself, you'll believe everyone else is lying.


Why assume in the first place? And once you've gone out on the limb of assuming the ghosts exist, why then also guess what extraordinary powers they might have? It's like guessing what color of laser might shoot out of a unicorns horn.
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Re: Have you ever experienced Divine Intervention?

Postby youjustcomplain » Feb 15th, 2017, 8:21 am

zzontar wrote:Out of curiousity, if an atheist saw a ghost and found out it was a god, ...


If an Atheist saw a ghost and found out it was a god, you wouldn't have an atheist anymore. An atheist is someone who doesn't believe in gods. If they found out god existed, they would stop being an atheist.

zzontar wrote:...what basis would they base their belief that they don't exist on?

I know I've had the discussion before on these boards, but atheism is about a lack of belief in god(s). As such, atheists don't typically believe that god doesn't exist, atheists don't believe gods do exist. subtle, but different. One requires belief, the other requires a lack of it.

In the end, if god was revealed to me, (an atheist), I would no longer be an atheist. If I saw a bright light on a highway, then didn't have a car accident, I wouldn't go ahead and give the light a human figure and think it was my dead relatives. Most atheists I know are quite content in not having an explanation or seeking one, rather than creating a supernatural one to fill the gap.
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