Have you ever experienced Divine Intervention?

Is there a god? What is the meaning of life?

Re: Have you ever experienced Divine Intervention?

Postby zzontar » Feb 28th, 2017, 9:30 am

youjustcomplain wrote:
Glacier wrote: If I saw proof of gods existence, I'd have no choice but to "believe". To this day, there are Atheists because there is no proof.


Right. If I see god, or I see a ghost, I'm going to wonder what I saw. I might continue to wonder until I die. Or, I might jump to a conclusion and decide that I "know" what I saw. This isn't how I work, but I can't speak for anyone else.


It's the proof thing that gets me. It's like if you saw a UFO land in your yard, little green men got out, then walked back in and the UFO instantly disappears. Even if you filmed the event you would be heckled relentlessly, and would it be proof enough they exist for you? Proof of divine intervention for one doesn't mean it works the same for the next.
They say you can't believe everything they say.
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Re: Have you ever experienced Divine Intervention?

Postby mexi cali » Feb 28th, 2017, 9:49 am

There's a lot in here and it's a great topic. I have experienced moments in my life that seemed to have been guided by something more than what could pass as normal coincidence.

I also believe in the existence of spirits.

One thing though that I never do is hope to change anyone elses beliefs. To my knowledge, I have never even had a deep conversation with anyone who shared mine either.

Events have occurred and they involved me and occasionally others which has led me to my own personal perspective.

Most people need to believe something. Hence Christianity et. al. I feel sorry for those who believe that the end is the end. That's kind of bleak if you ask me.

My theory in support of unnatural or supernatural events if you like is this; If you take every instance since the dawn of time and are able to disprove 99.999%, that still leaves room doesn't it? If an actual "spiritual sighting" could be categorically proven to have occurred, it changes everything and I think that is what many are afraid of.

Just like UFO sightings. Most can be explained away, so many in fact that I don't even read about them anymore because most are easily dismissed but what is left makes for very interesting commentary on our place in the universe and where we came from and again, that is what people are afraid of.

I will however ask that whomever you are and whatever your background that you at the very least open yourself to the possibility that we are surrounded by mysterious and in some cases, unexplainable events every day which suggests that things are not as the nay sayers would have us believe.

Besides, I would rather live in a world where ghosts and UFOS and lost creatures exist than one where they don't. Oh, and divine intervention.
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Re: Have you ever experienced Divine Intervention?

Postby youjustcomplain » Feb 28th, 2017, 2:17 pm

I ask questions because I'm curious. I'm not always trying to be a jerk. Just consider that if you reply to me. :)

mexicalidreamer wrote:I also believe in the existence of spirits.

What do you base that belief on? Have you seen them? Felt them? smelled them? Does their existence make you feel better about lost loved ones?

mexicalidreamer wrote:One thing though that I never do is hope to change anyone elses beliefs. To my knowledge, I have never even had a deep conversation with anyone who shared mine either.

Well done. I totally agree. There is no changing someone elses mind. That comes from within. I think it's important to help open peoples minds to things they may be closed to, but there is no changing someones mind once it's made.

mexicalidreamer wrote:Most people need to believe something. Hence Christianity et. al. I feel sorry for those who believe that the end is the end. That's kind of bleak if you ask me.

You feel sorry for people who don't believe in things that can't be proved? Strange. We don't actually want your pity. Those of us who don't believe in some form of afterlife, don't actively disbelieve in it. We just don't see any reason to think it exists. It's not something to pity us for. Because I don't believe there is anything, for me, after the moment I die, I get to focus on the here and now and know that one day it will all be over. I actually feel a bit of pity for those who think they're living for the afterlife in some sort of heaven. Whatever that means to them.

mexicalidreamer wrote:My theory in support of unnatural or supernatural events if you like is this; If you take every instance since the dawn of time and are able to disprove 99.999%, that still leaves room doesn't it? If an actual "spiritual sighting" could be categorically proven to have occurred, it changes everything and I think that is what many are afraid of.

Who's afraid of the truth? Those with closed minds I suspect. I've never known an atheist with a closed mind, but I don't know all that many of us.
Ok, take supernatural events. Lets say there are 100 of them that have been witnessed and documented, from the "dawn of time" as you put it. Yes, I'm quite sure there are more like billions of them, but lets say 100. now, lets go on the premise that 99 have been proven false. Is there a chance that the last one might have happened? Sure. But we're talking about supernatural events. The burden of proof is with the group who claims it happened, not with those of us who don't believe it. If the event can't be proved to have taken place, then why should anyone believe it?

mexicalidreamer wrote:Just like UFO sightings. Most can be explained away, so many in fact that I don't even read about them anymore because most are easily dismissed but what is left makes for very interesting commentary on our place in the universe and where we came from and again, that is what people are afraid of.

Who is afraid? Do you mean a specific group of people? A culture? A society? A religion?

mexicalidreamer wrote:I will however ask that whomever you are and whatever your background that you at the very least open yourself to the possibility that we are surrounded by mysterious and in some cases, unexplainable events every day which suggests that things are not as the nay sayers would have us believe.

Unexplainable is a way of describing something we don't understand and can't explain, right now. Things are only unexplainable until they aren't. It doesn't take nay sayers to dispel the mystery. It takes education and science.

mexicalidreamer wrote:Besides, I would rather live in a world where ghosts and UFOS and lost creatures exist than one where they don't. Oh, and divine intervention.

Regardless of what world you'd rather live in, we live in this one. Either those things exist or they don't.
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Re: Have you ever experienced Divine Intervention?

Postby averagejoe » Feb 28th, 2017, 3:35 pm

Alexander the Great?

Daniel chapter 2 tells of Daniel’s interpretation of King Nebuchadnezzar’s dream 250 years before he conquered Persia....

Did God intervene in many battles during his conquest to make the prophecy true?

Daniel Chapter 8

4 I saw the ram charging westward and northward and southward. No beast could stand before him, and there was no one who could rescue from his power. He did as he pleased and became great.

5 As I was considering, behold, a ymale goat came from the west across the face of the whole earth, without touching the ground. And the goat had ya conspicuous horn between his eyes.

20 As for the ram that you saw with the two horns, these are the kings of Media and Persia.

21 And the goat4 is the king of Greece. And the great horn between his eyes is the first king.
The Kings of the South and the North

22 As for the horn that was broken, in place of which four others arose, four kingdoms shall arise from his nation, but not with his power.

Daniel Chapter 11

1“And as for me, in the first year of Darius the Mede, I stood up to confirm and strengthen him.

2 “And now I will show you vthe truth. Behold, three more kings shall arise in Persia, and a fourth shall be far richer than all of them. And when he has become strong through his riches, he shall stir up all against the kingdom of Greece.

3 Then a mighty king shall arise, who shall rule with great dominion and do as he wills.

4 And as soon as he has arisen, his kingdom shall be broken and divided toward the four winds of heaven, but not to his posterity, nor according to the authority with which he ruled, for his kingdom shall be plucked up and go to others besides these.

22 As for the horn that was broken, in place of which four others arose, four kingdoms shall arise from his nation, but not with his power.
Ecclesiastes 10:2 A wise man's heart is at his right hand; but a fool's heart at his left.
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Re: Have you ever experienced Divine Intervention?

Postby averagejoe » Feb 28th, 2017, 3:49 pm

I always wondered why Alexander the Great slept in the on the day of the battle of Gaugamela.
His 40,000 men took on 250,000 and won...maybe because of his?
He knew God was on his side....

You won't read this in the secular history books....

Alexander the Great's Dream.....

Image
Jaddua read predictions from the book of Daniel to Alexander.

Jaddua and other priests dressed in white robes, brought some pages from book of Daniel. The atmosphere grew tense as Alexander’s army approached.

Alexander was surprised to find a welcome post instead of battle ready defense forces. As he arrived, he dismounted his horse and begin to walk towards the priests, alone. Troops rushed to go with him but he declined.

Alexander met and greeted Jaddua for the first time. He told the priest that he recognized him from a dream many moons back when he was planning his conquest back in Greece.

In that dream, he told the priest, God had introduced you me and told him that the old priest will assist me in my conquest of Persia.

Jaddua shared that he too had a similar dream. In Jaddua’s dream, God appeared and assure him that the people of Jerusalem would be protected from the king of Macedon.

Then, Jaddua read predictions from the book of Daniel to Alexander. One of those predictions was that – a Greek King will come from the West, bring down the Persian Empire; and conquer the entire world. Jaddua claimed that Alexander was the Greek King mentioned.

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Ecclesiastes 10:2 A wise man's heart is at his right hand; but a fool's heart at his left.
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Re: Have you ever experienced Divine Intervention?

Postby averagejoe » Feb 28th, 2017, 4:42 pm

averagejoe wrote:Did God intervene in this battle?

Battle of Blood River Dec 16th 1838 South Africa....


cliffy1 wrote:"Thou shalt not kill." If there is a god and it made that declaration, it would not condone war let alone choose sides.
During world war 1 & 2, you would see priests and ministers blessing both sides in the name of the same god. If the absurdity of that doesn't make you scratch your head...


Yes it did happen...but also when Israel had a civil war when it divided into 2 nations. Judah and Samaria...I'm sure they both prayed then too, to the same God. Which side did God take that day? Maybe he sat out?
Ecclesiastes 10:2 A wise man's heart is at his right hand; but a fool's heart at his left.
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Re: Have you ever experienced Divine Intervention?

Postby mexi cali » Feb 28th, 2017, 5:10 pm

I'm not always trying to be a jerk.


But I get the feeling that you are in fact trying to be one but I will attempt to keep my responses more in the line of civility. I don't want Ferri all up in my face.

1) yes, I believe that I have on more than one occasion. Did it or didn't it? WTFK but I was there and you weren't. Every time.

2) Thank you for the "well done". Not a wasted day after all.

3) You don't speak for all so don't assume what anyone wants or doesn't want. I don't equate feeling sorry with pity. It's more of a heavy sigh followed by a "that's to bad". ANd it is afterall, my opinion.

4) Lot's of people are afraid of the truth because of what it may mean for them. Imagine if you will a world full of Catholics and Chrisitians and Buddhists and Muslims etc. etc. who find out that none of their gods was real? What does that say about their lives and their beliefs? I personally know many of religion who openly admit that they are afraid of the possibility even though the act of admitting that somehow contradicts their beliefs. And supernatural simply means beyond natural, not impossible.

5) Oh my god (sorry, didn't mean to offend) you are testy. And I answered that above. Jump back.

6) Funny that you latched on to the second part of that paragraph and totally ignored the beginning. But I will admit that you are correct in your understanding of the term and where the solution lies.

7) See, this is where you become what you said you didn't want to be. FAIL. It is obvious that I believe that the world I LIVE IN does have these things in it. Do not lump me in with you sir. Or Madame. I wish to not be.
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Re: Have you ever experienced Divine Intervention?

Postby Thinktank » Feb 28th, 2017, 6:10 pm



They said this guy ^^^ was a prophet. Then a lot of other people years later said he was a liar, and a fraud.
It doesn't matter. No one can go back in time to see if he really raised a kid from the dead in Finland,
or if he lied about it so don't worry about it.

Wayne Gretzky said "there must be something out there" when they asked him if he believes in God.
And that's all anyone can do - is expect there's something out there.
Ukraine is broke, and undertook a war on that portion of the country that provided 30% of GDP. Now a draft, for an army, for a war, for a government that will - get this - implement IMF/EU *austerity*.
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Re: Have you ever experienced Divine Intervention?

Postby youjustcomplain » Mar 1st, 2017, 9:00 am

mexicalidreamer wrote:But I get the feeling that you are in fact trying to be one but I will attempt to keep my responses more in the line of civility. I don't want Ferri all up in my face.

1) yes, I believe that I have on more than one occasion. Did it or didn't it? WTFK but I was there and you weren't. Every time.

2) Thank you for the "well done". Not a wasted day after all.

3) You don't speak for all so don't assume what anyone wants or doesn't want. I don't equate feeling sorry with pity. It's more of a heavy sigh followed by a "that's to bad". ANd it is afterall, my opinion.

4) Lot's of people are afraid of the truth because of what it may mean for them. Imagine if you will a world full of Catholics and Chrisitians and Buddhists and Muslims etc. etc. who find out that none of their gods was real? What does that say about their lives and their beliefs? I personally know many of religion who openly admit that they are afraid of the possibility even though the act of admitting that somehow contradicts their beliefs. And supernatural simply means beyond natural, not impossible.

5) Oh my god (sorry, didn't mean to offend) you are testy. And I answered that above. Jump back.

6) Funny that you latched on to the second part of that paragraph and totally ignored the beginning. But I will admit that you are correct in your understanding of the term and where the solution lies.

7) See, this is where you become what you said you didn't want to be. FAIL. It is obvious that I believe that the world I LIVE IN does have these things in it. Do not lump me in with you sir. Or Madame. I wish to not be.


I was upfront about the fact that I was not trying to be a jerk. You, on the other hand, had to try to be civil. Oh, how generous of you to spare me from your unwillingness to accept someone challenging your view. That said, lots of people seem to have no patience for someone challenging their views on things.
I'll be brief in my responses to you, mostly because it feels like you'd prefer to have your opinion unchallenged and aren't really interested in the conversation.

1. Yup. I wasn't there when you experienced your spirits, so no, I can't tell you they aren't real. Doesn't mean they are though.

2. My not replying to certain parts of your previous post told you that I ignored those parts, so I'll even acknowledge that I read this line.

3. Fair enough. I shouldn't lump athesists together, as it is quite possible and likely that we don't agree on the exact definition of atheism. Are you suggesting that atheists do want the pity that you've somewhat retracted? I think it's safe to say that I can speak to most atheists so much as we don't want your pity, or even your "sigh, that's too bad" sentiment.

4. It's an interesting question. What if gods were somehow proven to not exist? (impossible feat). What then for all the believers of the world? I suspect that most of them would go on believing, just as they do now. It's sad that any person of faith would fear the possibility of their god not being real. What is bad about there being no god anyhow?

5. I'm actually not testy, just curious.

6. Why do you think I ignored the first part of the paragraph? Because I didn't quote it? If there is nothing in a paragraph that provokes thought, for me, I won't be all that curious about it. I dunno what else to say. Doesn't mean I disregarded it.

7. No no no. don't try that. You said that you would "rather live in a world...". This is a typical type of comment from believers. You explain what you want in order to justify your belief in it.

I believe that you do believe, as you say you do, and I'm not trying to change yours or anyone elses mind. Belief in something seems to require a want to do so, which I don't have. I'm really just curious how most other people have this faith that fulfills them with something. I don't have it, and never have. I don't know what I'm missing, but I'm quite happy where I am.
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Re: Have you ever experienced Divine Intervention?

Postby mexi cali » Mar 6th, 2017, 9:47 am

All in all, I don't care that you believe or that you don't. I am not trying to say that there is or there isn't because I don't definitively know. I thought I was pretty clear. I was saying that "these things happened" and the result was or is that I believe that there is something more. what that something is, I don't know.

I stand by my contention that it is better to believe in something rather than nothing because nothing is kind of sad, in my opinion.

There have been times in my life when I have almost envied atheists and those who choose not to believe in anything, shall we say, out of the ordinary. It would have made the decision making process easier at the time.

I don't care that you challenge my beliefs but I don't feel that I am challenging yours. I think you are trying harder than I to make a point.

I do think think that it is many times ridiculous for people to believe that they have experienced some sort of divine intervention in their lives when they have been unaffected by tragedy when others weren't. If you believe in an omnipotent, merciful god, then you are contradicting your own belief if he has the ability or the desire to spare some but not all.

I also hate when athletes thank god when they win becase what they are in fact saying is that god smiled upon them but frowned upon their opponents as if he had a wager on the outcome.

Either way, maybe he just likes the recognition. Afterall, no press is bad press.
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Re: Have you ever experienced Divine Intervention?

Postby youjustcomplain » Mar 6th, 2017, 10:16 am

I think we have an understanding of one another, so we don't need to continue down this road. I did read your entire post, but I would like to just make one little comment to it. (the rest wasn't ignored I promise you !)

mexicalidreamer wrote:There have been times in my life when I have almost envied atheists and those who choose not to believe in anything, shall we say, out of the ordinary. It would have made the decision making process easier at the time.


I can't claim to speak for all atheists, but I've never met who who chooses to be an atheist. Those of us have never chosen to not believe in anything. We believe in lots of things; we just don't believe in a god or any of the divine miracles, interventions etc that come along with it.

All in all, it doesn't matter, to me, if you believe or not. My challenging your belief was for the point of conversation, that's it. I'm not trying to push any sort of agenda on you, or tell you that I think you're dumb for being who you are. All too many atheists are far too smug and arrogant and I'm sorry that you seem to have got that from me. Likely my writing style, because I meant neither of those traits.
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Re: Have you ever experienced Divine Intervention?

Postby averagejoe » Mar 10th, 2017, 9:56 am

8-year-old boy says 'angels' helped him save his father's life

Image

An 8-year-old boy in Idaho says angels helped him lift a car off his father's body to save his life.

J.T. Parker was working on a Toyota Prius with his 17-year-old brother Mason and their father Stephen at their Sugar City home last summer.

“We were pulling the engine out of the car, and after we got it jacked up, I climbed under there to take the axels off,” Stephen recalled to EastIdahoNews.com. “The one axle came off pretty easily, but the other side wasn’t coming off.”

http://www.eastidahonews.com/2017/03/su ... ll-on-him/

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2017/03/08/8- ... -life.html
Ecclesiastes 10:2 A wise man's heart is at his right hand; but a fool's heart at his left.
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Re: Have you ever experienced Divine Intervention?

Postby Thinktank » Apr 10th, 2017, 2:10 pm

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HyBFnzlKbO4

^ He says God made the basketball go in.
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Re: Have you ever experienced Divine Intervention?

Postby Poindexter » Apr 11th, 2017, 7:34 am

Thinktank wrote:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HyBFnzlKbO4

^ He says God made the basketball go in.


"God, I know you're busy, what with wars you need to pick sides on and everything, but can you help a fella out and make a ball go through a hoop"?
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