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The Incoherence of Atheism

Is there a god? What is the meaning of life?

Re: The Incoherence of Atheism

Postby youjustcomplain » Nov 16th, 2017, 10:26 am

averagejoe wrote:Atheism is being taught in our schools...it's called evolution.


Is this an attempt at trolling? If not, it's one of the most ignorant things I've read recently.

Evolution is the changes adopted by a species.

Atheism is the lack of believe in a god or gods.

Surely you understand the difference.

Whether or not there is a god, specifically the god you believe in, has nothing to do with evolution. Atheism does not mean belief in evolution. Teaching evolution is a very reasonable thing to do as it has been proven to be factual. Disbelief in evolution requires faith which should not be taught in the public education system.
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Re: The Incoherence of Atheism

Postby youjustcomplain » Nov 16th, 2017, 10:38 am

alanjh595 wrote:I feel that Atheists are the most open minded of all of the religions. They have not shut out the possibility of a god, it's just that no religious group/followers/believers have been able to prove that god exists.
Maybe, IF one of these groups of believers could actually PROVE something that they beleive in to be FACT and provable by all aspects modern science, then MAYBE, some might believe.
To date, that has not been done.


I would clarify a few points you made. :)
Atheists are not part of a religion. Your first sentence lumps atheism in with "all of the religions". I suspect that was a typo?

I don't generally like to speak for atheists, but for me, I'm not looking for proof of god's existence. For me to believe, I'd need to have evidence. Evidence, specifically, that is disprovable, but has not been.

I do think it's a bit hypocritical for us atheists to demand "proof" of a god when we accept other things without it.
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Re: The Incoherence of Atheism

Postby averagejoe » Nov 16th, 2017, 10:49 am

averagejoe wrote:Atheism is being taught in our schools...it's called evolution.


youjustcomplain wrote:
Is this an attempt at trolling? If not, it's one of the most ignorant things I've read recently.

Evolution is the changes adopted by a species.

Atheism is the lack of believe in a god or gods.

Surely you understand the difference.

Whether or not there is a god, specifically the god you believe in, has nothing to do with evolution. Atheism does not mean belief in evolution. Teaching evolution is a very reasonable thing to do as it has been proven to be factual. Disbelief in evolution requires faith which should not be taught in the public education system.


The teaching of evolution was brought in to get the school system away from the Bible teachings of Creation. Then the doors open for atheism. Pretty simple. It is you that doesn't understand. :D
Ecclesiastes 10:2 A wise man's heart is at his right hand; but a fool's heart at his left.
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Re: The Incoherence of Atheism

Postby averagejoe » Nov 16th, 2017, 10:58 am

youjustcomplain wrote:Atheists are not part of a religion. Your first sentence lumps atheism in with "all of the religions". I suspect that was a typo?


I bet to differ...atheism is a religion according to the U.S. Supreme Court.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Torcaso_v._Watkins
Ecclesiastes 10:2 A wise man's heart is at his right hand; but a fool's heart at his left.
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Re: The Incoherence of Atheism

Postby Poindexter » Nov 16th, 2017, 11:45 am

averagejoe wrote:I bet to differ...atheism is a religion according to the U.S. Supreme Court.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Torcaso_v._Watkins


Evangelicals want to label atheism, or what they call "secular humanism", a religion because it benefits them, not because it's true.

From Joe's link.
Justice Black's use of the term "secular humanism" in his footnote has been seized upon by some religious groups, such as those supporting causes such as teaching creationism in schools, as a "finding" that any secular or non-observable evolution-based activity is, in fact, religion.[6]
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Re: The Incoherence of Atheism

Postby Glacier » Nov 16th, 2017, 11:54 am

Those who are raised atheist are very open minded, that's why they are the most likely to switch their religious affiliation of any religious group: https://nineteensixty-four.blogspot.ca/ ... -came.html

As for the term "fundamentalist" I mean those who are sure or confident that their version of reality is true, so sure that the bar is set so high that almost no amount of evidence will change their mind.
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Re: The Incoherence of Atheism

Postby youjustcomplain » Nov 16th, 2017, 12:11 pm

averagejoe wrote:The teaching of evolution was brought in to get the school system away from the Bible teachings of Creation. Then the doors open for atheism. Pretty simple. It is you that doesn't understand. :D


But again, you miss the point. Evolution is taught in the school system because it's based on science and has enough evidence to be matter of fact. It's been proven to be true. The reason why bible teachings of creation isn't taught in the public school system is because it's completely based on faith, not science.

Sounds like we agree that science and creation are in conflict. Evolution is based on science, so yes, Evolution should be taught and creation should not be.

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Re: The Incoherence of Atheism

Postby youjustcomplain » Nov 16th, 2017, 12:13 pm

averagejoe wrote:I bet to differ...atheism is a religion according to the U.S. Supreme Court.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Torcaso_v._Watkins


Feel free to have your own opinion. However, I don't define atheism based on what another countries highest court has decided. If North Korea declared all Christians to be enemies of morality, does that mean it's true? Of course not.

In short, I don't care what the supreme court of a very religious country decides to call atheists.

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Re: The Incoherence of Atheism

Postby youjustcomplain » Nov 16th, 2017, 12:18 pm

averagejoe wrote:I bet to differ...atheism is a religion according to the U.S. Supreme Court.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Torcaso_v._Watkins


Since you seem to feel that atheists are part of a religion, please tell me (everyone). What about not believing in a god or believing that there is no god, as some may put it, makes it a religion ?

We don't worship
We don't have a holy book
We don't hold meetings
We don't base our lack of belief on faith

I could go on. Is your lack of belief in Zeus a religion? How about Odin? There are tons of things I don't believe in, but those lack of beliefs don't all assign me a religion. If they did, then I'd be a part of an unlimited number of religions.
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Re: The Incoherence of Atheism

Postby Glacier » Nov 16th, 2017, 1:24 pm

It's the answer to a religious question, so in that sense, it's a religious viewpoint. When asked "what's your region" you can say "I'm a theist", "I'm an atheist", "I'm a Buddhist", "I'm a Muzzie", "I'm not religious", "I'm a spiritualist", etc.

Atheism is more than passive non-belief or agnosticism. It's an active rejection of religious belief.

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Re: The Incoherence of Atheism

Postby averagejoe » Nov 16th, 2017, 1:58 pm

averagejoe wrote:The teaching of evolution was brought in to get the school system away from the Bible teachings of Creation. Then the doors open for atheism. Pretty simple. It is you that doesn't understand. :D


youjustcomplain wrote:But again, you miss the point. Evolution is taught in the school system because it's based on science and has enough evidence to be matter of fact. It's been proven to be true. The reason why bible teachings of creation isn't taught in the public school system is because it's completely based on faith, not science.

Sounds like we agree that science and creation are in conflict. Evolution is based on science, so yes, Evolution should be taught and creation should not be.


LOL there is so much skepticism in science... :smt045

Science isn't all facts....
Ecclesiastes 10:2 A wise man's heart is at his right hand; but a fool's heart at his left.
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Re: The Incoherence of Atheism

Postby averagejoe » Nov 16th, 2017, 2:00 pm

averagejoe wrote:I bet to differ...atheism is a religion according to the U.S. Supreme Court.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Torcaso_v._Watkins


youjustcomplain wrote:Feel free to have your own opinion. However, I don't define atheism based on what another countries highest court has decided. If North Korea declared all Christians to be enemies of morality, does that mean it's true? Of course not.

In short, I don't care what the supreme court of a very religious country decides to call atheists.


Atheism is short for human secularism.... :smt045
Ecclesiastes 10:2 A wise man's heart is at his right hand; but a fool's heart at his left.
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Re: The Incoherence of Atheism

Postby youjustcomplain » Nov 16th, 2017, 2:08 pm

averagejoe wrote:LOL there is so much skepticism in science... :smt045
Science isn't all facts....


Yes. Totally correct. Science is all about skepticism. Once a theory is put forward, everyone is free to prove it wrong. If the theory is proved to be wrong, then it's scrapped and replaced either with a new one to test, or nothing at all. This is healthy science at its best ! I'm skeptical of all science, but I choose to accept long standing theories that could be disproved, but have yet to be. Those seem to be the best way to explain our universe.
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Re: The Incoherence of Atheism

Postby averagejoe » Nov 16th, 2017, 2:21 pm

averagejoe wrote:LOL there is so much skepticism in science... :smt045
Science isn't all facts....

youjustcomplain wrote:Yes. Totally correct. Science is all about skepticism. Once a theory is put forward, everyone is free to prove it wrong. If the theory is proved to be wrong, then it's scrapped and replaced either with a new one to test, or nothing at all. This is healthy science at its best ! I'm skeptical of all science, but I choose to accept long standing theories that could be disproved, but have yet to be. Those seem to be the best way to explain our universe.


So your in total confusion all the time is what I'm reading into what your saying? :135:
Ecclesiastes 10:2 A wise man's heart is at his right hand; but a fool's heart at his left.
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Re: The Incoherence of Atheism

Postby alanjh595 » Nov 16th, 2017, 2:29 pm

There once was a great deal of skepticism than man could walk on the moon. Science proved that theory wrong too.
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