Do Christians

[averagejoe]

No, just part of Christian history. The Coronation Chair with the Stone of Jacob is in Westminster Abbey which is the Church of England. The Stone is presently in Edinburgh Castle Scotland. All Kings and Queens of Judah, Ireland, Scotland and England have been crowned on the Stone since King David 3,000 years ago.

https://www.edinburghcastle.gov.uk/disc ... of-destiny

In legend it was used as a pillow by the Patriarch Jacob when he dreamed of Jacob’s Ladder. Seen as a sacred object it was believed to have been brought first to Ireland, then Scotland.

http://www.westminster-abbey.org/our-hi ... tion-chair

Legends abound concerning the Stone of Scone. Tradition identifies it with the one upon which Jacob rested his head at Bethel - "And Jacob rose up early in the morning, and took the stone that he had put for his pillows, and set it up for a pillar, and poured oil upon the top of it" (Genesis chapter 28, verse 18). The legend then says that Jacob's sons carried it to Egypt and from thence it passed to Spain with King Gathelus, son of Cecrops, the builder of Athens. About 700 BC it was said to be in Ireland, whither it was carried by the Spanish King's son Simon Brech, on his invasion of the island. There it was placed upon the sacred Hill of Tara, and called "Lia-Fail", the "fatal" stone, or "stone of destiny", for when the Irish kings were seated on it at coronations the Stone groaned aloud if the claimant was of royal race but remained silent if he was a pretender. Fergus Mor MacEirc (died 50l?), the founder of the Scottish monarchy, and one of the Blood Royal of Ireland, received it in Scotland, and Kenneth MacAlpin (died 860) finally deposited it in the monastery of Scone in Perthshire (846).

[Ka-El]

Dizzy's post just confirmed that you people don't have any logic whatsoever.

Actually, anyone who has taken a philosophy class and actually studied logical argument will remember the argument of whether or not God exists is impossible to prove or disprove logically. I do find it interesting to ponder what vested interest is at work in people who are bent on attacking the concept of God or Christianity (p.s. I am not Christian). I’ll go with Bsuds in saying “You can call someone stupid for believing and you can call them stupid for not believing but I say it's really stupid to argue about it and try to change anyone's beliefs.” A person’s spiritual and/or religious beliefs are more a part of them than even partisan politics, and there are still people who believe in Trump despite all the best evidence he is little more than an incompetent wannabe. Why is it so important to convince yourself that you are right in this unprovable argument and everyone who believes there is a God (or something, as there as many possibilities as there are people on Earth) is wrong?

What are you afraid of?

[daria]

No, just part of Christian history. The Coronation Chair with the Stone of Jacob is in Westminster Abbey which is the Church of England. The Stone is presently in Edinburgh Castle Scotland. All Kings and Queens of Judah, Ireland, Scotland and England have been crowned on the Stone since King David 3,000 years ago.

https://www.edinburghcastle.gov.uk/disc ... of-destiny

In legend it was used as a pillow by the Patriarch Jacob when he dreamed of Jacob’s Ladder. Seen as a sacred object it was believed to have been brought first to Ireland, then Scotland.

http://www.westminster-abbey.org/our-hi ... tion-chair

Legends abound concerning the Stone of Scone. Tradition identifies it with the one upon which Jacob rested his head at Bethel - "And Jacob rose up early in the morning, and took the stone that he had put for his pillows, and set it up for a pillar, and poured oil upon the top of it" (Genesis chapter 28, verse 18). The legend then says that Jacob's sons carried it to Egypt and from thence it passed to Spain with King Gathelus, son of Cecrops, the builder of Athens. About 700 BC it was said to be in Ireland, whither it was carried by the Spanish King's son Simon Brech, on his invasion of the island. There it was placed upon the sacred Hill of Tara, and called "Lia-Fail", the "fatal" stone, or "stone of destiny", for when the Irish kings were seated on it at coronations the Stone groaned aloud if the claimant was of royal race but remained silent if he was a pretender. Fergus Mor MacEirc (died 50l?), the founder of the Scottish monarchy, and one of the Blood Royal of Ireland, received it in Scotland, and Kenneth MacAlpin (died 860) finally deposited it in the monastery of Scone in Perthshire (846).

The above text is a pretty Euro-centric view of a Middle Eastern text.

Can you show me in the Bible where it says that the stone from B'resheet (Genesis) 28:18-19 ended up at David's coronation (2 Sh'mu'el [Samuel] chapters 5 & 6)?

[averagejoe]

LOL I just did! The Government of Scotland and Westminster Abbey...

And here is the whole story!

viewtopic.php?f=16&t=73161

Enjoy!

[daria]

LOL I just did! The Government of Scotland and Westminster Abbey...

And here is the whole story!

viewtopic.php?f=16&t=73161

Enjoy!

I asked you to show me where the stone set up in Beit-El was ever used at David's coronation. This you have not done.

[averagejoe]

I asked you to show me where the stone set up in Beit-El was ever used at David's coronation. This you have not done.

You will have to come over to my place and go over all my old books....

I'm not about to do that with someone who isn't a Christian.

[daria]

I wouldn't go to the home of a random guy who professes to know the Bible, but clearly doesn't; otherwise, you would be able to show me the evidence for your claims here, using the Scriptures that are supposedly the basis for your beliefs.

[Jflem1983]

She was all for hanging out if u could just quote the rite verse Joe.

[averagejoe]

I wouldn't go to the home of a random guy who professes to know the Bible, but clearly doesn't; otherwise, you would be able to show me the evidence for your claims here, using the Scriptures that are supposedly the basis for your beliefs.

LOL where did I say I professes to know the Bible?

The Bible only covers the Stone at the time of Jacob/Israel. Secular history picks up the Stone from the fall of Judah to
Queen Elizabeth II....

Lots of Legends of the Stone regarding the Stone!
Do some research....

Like Moses Striking the Stone with the Rod of God to part the Red Sea

Moses striking the Stone to produce water for the Israelites

Levites carrying the Stone thru the desert

The Stone was the pedestal for the Ark of the Covenant in Solomon's Temple

[unclemarty]

Sounds a bit like all the other obsessions Europeans have had for centuries regarding magical religious relics.


...together with every other tangent developed since the Romans "Christianized" the Messiah, create the calendar, created new holidays, and created "the church" (in their own image)

[JLives]

I see hardline Christian "believers", actually "believers" of just about any faith that has a conscious deity in its resume, in the same light as atheists. Both are close-minded to alternatives to their own beliefs. The idea that you don't have to justify a negative position is just a cop out.

To take it a point further, I often wonder just what God it is that athiests don't believe in. The cutting edge of quantum physics gets closer to something god-like on a daily basis.

We believe in one less god than Christians do. Noone questions the nonexistence of every other god Christians don't believe in. Why is that? Where is the Ganesh is real thread?

We just don't "believe" in anything. We accept conclusions based on evidence and there is currently none supporting the existence of a diety. And, no, the bible doesn't count. That's the equivalent of saying Hogwarts is real because Harry lived in the historial city of London which we know exists. Should solid evidence come up supporting a diety atheists would be the first to accept it.

[daria]

LOL where did I say I professes to know the Bible?

The Bible only covers the Stone at the time of Jacob/Israel. Secular history picks up the Stone from the fall of Judah to
Queen Elizabeth II....

Lots of Legends of the Stone regarding the Stone!
Do some research....

Like Moses Striking the Stone with the Rod of God to part the Red Sea

Moses striking the Stone to produce water for the Israelites

Levites carrying the Stone thru the desert

The Stone was the pedestal for the Ark of the Covenant in Solomon's Temple

How could Jacob's stone at Beit-El be found on the other side of the Red Sea?

You are also mixing up your Biblical stories. According to Sh'mot (Exodus) 14, Moshe lifted his staff and stretched his hand over the Red Sea. In Sh'mot 17:6, he struck the rock at Horev so that the people could drink water. Two different stories. Neither one took place at Beit-El.

I guess I made the assumption that you based your beliefs on the text that is your faith's founding document.

[Jflem1983]

U seem well read Daria. I take it u have spent a lot of time studying this

[averagejoe]

How could Jacob's stone at Beit-El be found on the other side of the Red Sea? Jacob Stone was from Bethel. 11 Miles north of Jerusalem where he had his vision? Where is Beit-El? The Stone was a Israelite family treasure. It was carried and looked after by the Levite Tribe of the Israelites.

You are also mixing up your Biblical stories. According to Sh'mot (Exodus) 14, Moshe lifted his staff and stretched his hand over the Red Sea. Also in Israelite Legend he struck the Stone. The Bible says he streached his arms out.

In Sh'mot 17:6, he struck the rock at Horev so that the people could drink water. Two different stories. Neither one took place at Beit-El. Where is Beit-El it's the same place as Bethel?

I guess I made the assumption that you based your beliefs on the text that is your faith's founding document.
No based on writers other than the Bible...

[daria]

Beit-El is Bethel in Hebrew. It still isn't on the other side of the Red Sea.