Population puts world on brink

[Homeownertoo]

There is no doubt humankind owes much to capitalism (that cannot be understated), but to presume it is a system that could be left to run unchecked without any government interference is naive.

Yes, it is naive, and no one is making such a claim. Quite the opposite. Capitalism cannot work without government protection of private property and legal enforcement of contract, among other things.

Professional sports leagues recognize what the long term consequence would be in not interfering with their competitive model and that is why teams that finish last each season pick first in the draft. It is about seeking parity, because without some effort at parity the leagues would not survive. There is a lesson there for those who are willing to refrain from expending all their energy defending their point of view and just a little bit of energy considering another. As I’ve stated before, in the game of monopoly there is only one winner, just one – and then the game is over.

That is why a large role of government is, as I stated earlier, "to temper the vicissitudes of life for those less blessed with the ability to earn a living". Where to draw the line is a matter of politics, not capitalism.

... as I clearly stated in the OP I didn’t introduce this topic to suggest we abandon capitalism. It is the best socioeconomic system humankind has employed. That doesn’t mean we need to be complacent and let things just play out as they will. Real freedom and democracy (for everyone) requires some attention. We do (IMO) have to start considering the fact we do not live in isolation (in fact, the world is getting smaller as well as more crowed every day) and consider ways to “tweak” what we are doing so that civilized humankind will survive.

What I and others were responding to, though you seemed not to pick up on, were comments of yours such as: "the unwillingness of one camp to challenge their own thinking and objectively consider the viewpoints of the other camp. This is clearly evidenced by the demonstrated lack of understanding of any paradigm different than their own." On the contrary, we understand the opposing paradigm quite well, and have learned from it how disastrous it is. We thus have no interest in "challenging our thinking" so as to consider, once again, that maybe, just maybe, there is something of value to be found in the detritus of its accomplishments. The paradigm we are left with is capitalism, and I, at least, have little patience with views expressed in this forum that capitalism is the problem. If, on the other hand, you and others wish to discuss problems within the capitalist paradigm, I'm all ears. I'll even offer a couple: the apparently misplaced emphasis on monetary policy rather than credit as a lever of economic growth, and the misplaced emphasis on GDP rather than the makeup of GDP as a measure of wealth. As regards the latter, much useless economic activity (largely in the gov't controlled sector) registers as part of GDP when in reality it should be considered a waste of resources.

You might also want to consider the massive role of gov't in creating the financial crisis of the past few years, or the gov't failures involved in the ongoing European Union crisis, and how they have led to untold misery in the Club Med countries. These are not failures of capitalism or any paradigm of capitalism. They are all failures of politics that set out to achieve certain social goals by manipulating the economic system.

[NAB]

As somebody who paid virtually no taxes last year, I agree.

Hmmmm, I hear that a lot with respect to low/no taxable income individuals (although it's not totally true when one considers all the ways that taxes influence what comes out of our pockets every year), ....but more frequently from the higher flyers and successful business folk... ....and the latter usually seem particularly proud of themselves for some reason. ...Part of the problem?

Nab

[The Green Barbarian]

You might also want to consider the massive role of gov't in creating the financial crisis of the past few years, or the gov't failures involved in the ongoing European Union crisis, and how they have led to untold misery in the Club Med countries. These are not failures of capitalism or any paradigm of capitalism. They are all failures of politics that set out to achieve certain social goals by manipulating the economic system.

You use logical conclusions in your arguments, therefore expect the radical leftists to respond with their usual emotional hyperbole about how you "hate the poor" etc etc. In a related story, someone had CBC newsworld on in the gym one day during the Davos meetings in Switzerland, so CBC went live to their reporter on the ground, Terry (ughh) Milewski, who decided to rather than report the news, to go on some insane rant about how capitalism doesn't work because of what a mess Europe is in and how conferences like this with the elitists of the world were indicative and how some economist agreed with him blah blah blah and of course the CBC anchor was nodding along with this stupidity, and all I could think was - ok you CBC numbskulls, what about the massive unsustainable social programs that Europe has in place? Doesn't that have ANYTHING at all to do with the "mess" that Europe is in? Of course it does. But not a word about that from Terry.

Somehow, "capitalism" was to blame - so I guess it was "capitalism" that said that everyone in Europe should sit on their duffs earning welfare payments, until they were 60 and then they qualified for pensions. A lifetime on the government dole is what many in Europe expect now, with no concept of where the money comes from to pay them, and somehow "capitalism" is the culprit. It's not capitalism, it's the entitlement complex stemming from social engineering goals of their politicians. They failed, as anyone who understands finance and economics knew they would, and now its time to pay the piper.

[Captain Awesome]

Part of the problem?

Nab

Dunno. I mean, if you exercise your rights to and play within the rules laid out by the govt, go through avenues available to everybody including yourself, how can it be a problem?

[NAB]

Part of the problem?Nab

Dunno. I mean, if you exercise your rights to and play within the rules laid out by the govt, go through avenues available to everybody including yourself, how can it be a problem?

I don't think I would be particularly proud of myself if I was benefiting from things paid for by others via taxes, while at the same time being able to contribute my share and pay my own way, yet place emphasis on using escape mechanisms to avoid doing so as much as possible and pocketing the profits.

Nab

[grammafreddy]

I don't think I would be particularly proud of myself if I was benefiting from things paid for by others via taxes, while at the same time being able to contribute my share and pay my own way, yet place emphasis on using escape mechanisms to avoid doing so as much as possible and pocketing the profits.

Nab

So you don't claim all your available and legal tax credits and exemptions when you do your income tax?

[Captain Awesome]

I don't think I would be particularly proud of myself

I guess we all make choices.

[jennylives]

So you don't claim all your available and legal tax credits and exemptions when you do your income tax?

I don't claim all of mine either.

[NAB]

So you don't claim all your available and legal tax credits and exemptions when you do your income tax?

That has lttle to nothing to do with my point if you read it carefully gramma, and I think you know that ;-) There are only two ways for an individual or business to pay no income taxes at all, and as I suggested I wouldn't be particularly proud of broadcasting either were it me. The flip side of course is that one should feel proud to be in a position where they have to pay taxes and contribute to the cost of things and services they use that are provided by government with the tax dollars of them and others.

Nab

[Captain Awesome]

There are only two ways for an individual or business to pay no income taxes at all, and as I suggested I wouldn't be particularly proud of broadcasting either were it me.

And what are they, just out of curiosity?

[NAB]

It's not really a huge mystery if you think carefully about it Captain.

Nab

[Captain Awesome]

It's not really a huge mystery if you think carefully about it Captain.

No, I really don't. What are they?

[ixler8]

Extremely low income or losing money - grow op's are also a popular non taxable income - freedom 35 .

[NAB]

that's one.... ;-)

Nab

[Captain Awesome]

Oh.

Well, I guess it wasn't that.