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Addicted to oil

Your thoughts on environment issues and economic issues.

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Re: Addicted to oil

Postby Bman » Nov 17th, 2012, 5:25 pm

You actually think BP wont survive?
Their capitalization is 135 billion.
I doubt very much that they will fail over that fine.
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Re: Addicted to oil

Postby Fixer 166 » Nov 17th, 2012, 5:45 pm

I'd say they're going to be awight.
http://www.edmontonjournal.com/business ... story.html

A mere billion, a deal really.
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Re: Addicted to oil

Postby steven lloyd » Nov 17th, 2012, 5:47 pm

Babbitman wrote:You actually think BP wont survive?
Their capitalization is 135 billion.
I doubt very much that they will fail over that fine.

Fined $1.5 billion. Certainly a significant number but given their profits last year alone were $16 billion, far from crippling.
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Re: Addicted to oil

Postby Crazy Horse » Nov 17th, 2012, 7:44 pm

Not sure where you got the 1.5B number from.

Criminal fine of 4.5 Billion
Clean up so far 14 Billion
Settled claims to individuals and businesses so far 9 Billion
Unsettled claims to individuals and businesses est. at 7.8 Billion
Pending gross negligence lawsuit that could result in 20 Billion fine under the clean water act.
Three employees charged with manslaughter
And this all before civil lawsuits.

BP stock plunged after the accident and has never recovered. They sold off 35 Billion in assets in order to pay for these settlements. Many financial analysts believe BP is ripe for a takeover or could be broken up and sold off.

I don't know if that will happen, I only said they likely won't survive.
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Re: Addicted to oil

Postby Bman » Nov 17th, 2012, 11:52 pm

I think it recovered nicely. It hit a low of 28 something during the DH spill and was a good buy because it was so undervalued. Its currently trading in the 40 dollar range. Its last 52 week range is between 36 and 48.
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Re: Addicted to oil

Postby steven lloyd » Nov 18th, 2012, 1:22 am

Crazy Horse wrote: :129: Not sure where you got the 1.5B number from.

:129: Just relaying numbers reported on the news (Global).
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Re: Addicted to oil

Postby Crazy Horse » Nov 18th, 2012, 8:38 am

Babbitman wrote:I think it recovered nicely. It hit a low of 28 something during the DH spill and was a good buy because it was so undervalued. Its currently trading in the 40 dollar range. Its last 52 week range is between 36 and 48.


In the month before the spill BP was trading in the $60 range, it is now around $40.

Over the same period Exxon went from $70 to $86, Shell $60 to $70, Chevron $78 to $102
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Re: Addicted to oil

Postby 5VP » Nov 18th, 2012, 3:30 pm

Crazy Horse wrote: If that same accident had happened to a Venezuelan rig, do you really think anything would have come of it?

Yes...

As for the global mess we are in (or as I like to call it -heat, A/C, cars. airplanes, fresh food, electricity, computers, phones), well I will take it over the alternative any day. I would rather live now than in, say, 1712.

If we keep going this way we will be once more as in 1712 by the turn of the next century anyways except with more useless oil fueled garbage for what remains of the future smog-saturated generations of shorter living humans to cleanup ...

The cost associated with petroleum is worth it. Great strides have been made in making petroleum energy more efficiently and cleaner. As for wars, that is a problem that goes far beyond oil. Civilizations have been at war since the beginning of time, so don't blame oil.

Sure, wars have always been fought but oil is now just one more excuse to go to war...

Have you not heard of WW2 and the Gulf wars??

History 101 Hint... Both these and many others currently being fought are/were instigated and fought over control of your wondrous and delicious oil.

It (oil) ain't so benign and it and all of it's products and the production process and use of these products (except perhaps a few medicinal uses) are in fact deadly or damaging to most living things on this planet.

This global ruination has all been accomplished by only about 100 years use of this poison v. the 10's of thousands of years we existed without it.

100 years of car salesmen and promotion of oil related products have done more damage to this planet than millennia of all other traditional industries combined.

Sounds kinda evil to me...
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Re: Addicted to oil

Postby Captain Awesome » Nov 18th, 2012, 3:43 pm

Oil is awesome.
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Re: Addicted to oil

Postby Crazy Horse » Nov 18th, 2012, 4:01 pm

5VP...

We disagree obviously on every point. I enjoy the comforts of today, and you would prefer a more primitive existence. But you have such a hate on for oil that you are letting it cloud your perspective of world events. All of the wars and violence you allude to would have happened with or without oil. The only difference would be the weapons; Spears and arrows or guns and planes.
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Re: Addicted to oil

Postby 5VP » Nov 22nd, 2012, 11:20 am

Crazy Horse wrote:5VP...

We disagree obviously on every point. I enjoy the comforts of today, and you would prefer a more primitive existence. But you have such a hate on for oil that you are letting it cloud your perspective of world events. All of the wars and violence you allude to would have happened with or without oil. The only difference would be the weapons; Spears and arrows or guns and planes.


Jeez folks. Can't see you're disconnectedness here?

There is no "allusion" to anything about the wars of the 20th and now the 21st centuries. There appears here to be, however, much denial and disillusion among you about the consequences of allowing yourselves to be swept along with the tide of consumerism which gives the corporate oil pirates their empire$.

Once more with the History 101 I suppose...

WW2 started over a fight to control oil. By both the Germans and the Japanese. Remember the Gulf Wars? These things happened. Ask any vet or refugee who was there. It's obvious that oil fumes and TV pablum have dulled your sense of humanity and reality.

One can no more hate oil than love it. It's a toxic substance. How can true humans possibly be so passionate about embracing this poison?

http://www.environmentalhealthnews.org/ ... tour-of-la

This is where we are all headed by continuing this selfish irresponsible use of a finite product.

Every breath you take now in Kelowna is petrochemically infused especially to those spandex attired fumesuckers who feel they are getting fitter by running/cycling in this toxic petrochemical soup. Nearly all your devices and ease-of-lifestyle that you have overpayed for have contributed to this pollution. You are living with a false sense of security if you feel this stuff is your friend.

You are literally paying corporations for your own petrochemically induced, disease ridden demise by continuing to by into this false economy.

The damages created by big oil far exceed the benefits. We need to figure out what has to change.

Lest we forget...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Love_Canal

Wars, weapons and guns existed long before the rise of big oil. Oil has only served to exacerbate these flaws in our humanity and make them even deadlier and more global in scale.

Suppose for a moment that oil will last forever but some other catastrophe has befallen our society and power grids are diminished so that only a few industries can be operated.

Which industries would be chosen to maintain basic life quality for all?

Which lifestyle products would you consider unnecessary and be able to give up?

How would oil be used then?

I agree that I do live what most of you would consider a primitive existence yet, here I am, still walking and breathing my daily dose of fresh air (fresher than yours) and using a 12 year old computer made of petro-plastic which I am keeping from polluting the landfill for as long as possible.

Not very cool, I realize, or hip to consumeristic hipsters such as yourselves but I know that I am much clearer in conscience and have a much much less chemically polluted body and mind.

I've been working on and have greatly reduced my addiction to this poison and suggest here that others need to start doing the same not just because I say so, but because it's the right thing for all of us to do...

http://healthland.time.com/2012/11/20/c ... st-cancer/
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Re: Addicted to oil

Postby Crazy Horse » Nov 22nd, 2012, 1:15 pm

5VP..

You need to revisit the history books. Your obsession with oil and it being the root cause to all these conflicts is extremely simplistic. You dismiss ideology, religion, politics, and history itself and jump right to oil. Strategic? Yes. Root cause? No.

You also try to paint the whole use of oil as "toxic", and how could we as humans embrace it. We live with toxins every day, from the gas you exhale every time you breathe, to medications in the fight against cancer. From volcanic eruptions, to the paints on an artists canvass. We strive to manage these and work to lessen the negative impact, because the benefits outweigh the negatives.

You have no faith in humankind and the innovations we are capable of. Yes, some day carbon based fuels will run low or become too expensive to use. Something else will take its place. We didn't stop building ships out of wood because we ran out of trees. The stone age didn't end because we ran out of rocks. Carbon fuels will have provided a standard of living like never before in history for the couple of hundred years it needs to until science provides something better.

Ultimately, overpopulation is a bigger problem than what we use to provide the comforts of life.
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Re: Addicted to oil

Postby ForestfortheTrees » Nov 22nd, 2012, 1:29 pm

Crazy Horse wrote: We didn't stop building ships out of wood because we ran out of trees.

Easter Island

Crazy Horse wrote:Carbon fuels will have provided a standard of living like never before in history for the couple of hundred years it needs to until science provides something better.

Yes, the market solution. This might be a good point if we took all the costs into consideration, but we don't. And some of the cost we don't even understand yet.[/quote]

Crazy Horse wrote:Ultimately, overpopulation is a bigger problem than what we use to provide the comforts of life.

...or is it comfort level that is the problem? If we had a more conservative lifestyle the planet could support more people so it goes both ways. The cost of our lifestyle is exported to developing countries. So why is there a new iPhone released every year? Is it for the betterment of humanity or for the self interest of shareholders? Where does the gold, copper, petroleum, and labour come from to make this crap? Developing countries. And please don't tell me that this is how we lift them out of poverty, because that is not directly supported by the evidence. Because, as has been pointed out, there are other factors involved like corruption, power, and greed.
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Re: Addicted to oil

Postby lakevixen » Nov 22nd, 2012, 3:20 pm

great post forest
you’re never going to find me in Victoria,” Ms. Clark said.
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Re: Addicted to oil

Postby Nibs » Nov 22nd, 2012, 5:54 pm

Back in the 1980's Buckminster Fuller pegged the true cost of gasoline at $1,000,000 per gallon.
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