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Permafrost melt releasing vast amounts of methane and CO2

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Re: Permafrost melt releasing vast amounts of methane and CO

Postby hobbyguy » Nov 28th, 2012, 12:52 pm

The reason I go back to the Vostok data and its discussion is that the data was produced by the Russians. Russia is a huge exporter of fossil fuels, and it is not in their interests to have people cut back on their use of fossil fuels. It follows that this data is very, very, unlikely to have been manipulated to serve the proponents of AGW...

The Vostok data, to the best of my limited knowledge, is the most accurate long term data set available (shorter term data sets, while more accurate, could reflect anomalies) - giving a 400,000 year overview.
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Re: Permafrost melt releasing vast amounts of methane and CO

Postby Glacier » Nov 28th, 2012, 1:09 pm

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Re: Permafrost melt releasing vast amounts of methane and CO

Postby ForestfortheTrees » Nov 28th, 2012, 2:33 pm

Arty, so far you have said that "climate changes and fluctuations . . . are all due to nature and a natural climate cycle, and have absolutely nothing to do with any activity of man" in one post, and then say "Because us bankrupting ourselves subsidizing solar and wind power, or living in caves, isn't going to make a difference to overall CO2 levels" How do you know this? It really is a simple question. You make a statement of fact and we ask you to support it. Easy.
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Re: Permafrost melt releasing vast amounts of methane and CO

Postby ForestfortheTrees » Nov 28th, 2012, 2:36 pm

Some background on CO2 and heat. Short and simple.

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Re: Permafrost melt releasing vast amounts of methane and CO

Postby Artofthedeal » Nov 28th, 2012, 2:37 pm

ForestfortheTrees wrote:Arty, so far you have said that "climate changes and fluctuations . . . are all due to nature and a natural climate cycle, and have absolutely nothing to do with any activity of man" in one post, and then say "Because us bankrupting ourselves subsidizing solar and wind power, or living in caves, isn't going to make a difference to overall CO2 levels" How do you know this? It really is a simple question. You make a statement of fact and we ask you to support it. Easy.


the amount of CO2 being pumped by India and China is growing drastically every day. To just implement radical communist-style cuts in our production, killing our economy and forcing everyone back to the 1800's here in North America may make the Westboro Baptist segment of your religion happy Forest, but it won't make any difference to overall world production. I know that this doesn't jive with the nonsensical doom and gloomers, who want us to just ignore production from other countries, and instead focus inward on our own personal economic destruction, but what else is new.
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Re: Permafrost melt releasing vast amounts of methane and CO

Postby Artofthedeal » Nov 28th, 2012, 2:38 pm

ForestfortheTrees wrote:Some background on CO2 and heat. Short and simple.


whoopity doo! You would think, given the AGW scammers are so smart, that one - just ONE - prediction of doom and gloom would come true. Yet nothing ever comes true. It's just a giant pack of lies.
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Re: Permafrost melt releasing vast amounts of methane and CO

Postby Nibs » Nov 28th, 2012, 2:54 pm

Artofthedeal wrote:the amount of CO2 being pumped by India and China is growing drastically every day. To just implement radical communist-style cuts in our production, killing our economy and forcing everyone back to the 1800's here in North America may make the Westboro Baptist segment of your religion happy Forest, but it won't make any difference to overall world production. I know that this doesn't jive with the nonsensical doom and gloomers, who want us to just ignore production from other countries, and instead focus inward on our own personal economic destruction, but what else is new.


Artie, this is just opinion, and disagrees with the vast body of knowledge available, if it is based on any sort of statistical evidence please present same, as Forest has asked.
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Re: Permafrost melt releasing vast amounts of methane and CO

Postby ForestfortheTrees » Nov 28th, 2012, 2:56 pm

Artofthedeal wrote:the amount of CO2 being pumped by India and China is growing drastically every day.


Since CO2 contributes to heat regulation of the planet, how is it that this has no impact on the global climate?
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Re: Permafrost melt releasing vast amounts of methane and CO

Postby ForestfortheTrees » Nov 29th, 2012, 11:30 am

Hey there Art - looking forward to the supporting evidence for your statement. Hope we get to see it soon.

"climate changes and fluctuations . . . are all due to nature and a natural climate cycle, and have absolutely nothing to do with any activity of man"
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Re: Permafrost melt releasing vast amounts of methane and CO

Postby Artofthedeal » Nov 29th, 2012, 11:57 am

ForestfortheTrees wrote:
"climate changes and fluctuations . . . are all due to nature and a natural climate cycle, and have absolutely nothing to do with any activity of man"


you really are dumb enough to keep pushing this aren't you? Well - other than "peer reviewed" literature from corrupt losers working in a gamed system, that concludes that "maybe" man is having "some" affect, what proof do you have? Zero. The AGW fraud is just that - a fraud. Now is where we get into some battle of links from various websites, and meanwhile, Fred Phelps will chime in with his insults, but the end result will be the same - you'll present no proof, but still expect billions upon billions of taxpayer money to be spent fighting your fake bogeyman, and all of the dire predictions from your camp about the "effects of man-made CO2 on climate" will continue to not come true. And round and round we go.
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Re: Permafrost melt releasing vast amounts of methane and CO

Postby ForestfortheTrees » Nov 29th, 2012, 12:56 pm

Artofthedeal wrote:you really are dumb enough to keep pushing this aren't you? Well - other than "peer reviewed" literature from corrupt losers working in a gamed system, that concludes that "maybe" man is having "some" affect, what proof do you have? Zero. The AGW fraud is just that - a fraud. Now is where we get into some battle of links from various websites, and meanwhile, Fred Phelps will chime in with his insults, but the end result will be the same - you'll present no proof, but still expect billions upon billions of taxpayer money to be spent fighting your fake bogeyman, and all of the dire predictions from your camp about the "effects of man-made CO2 on climate" will continue to not come true. And round and round we go.


Thanks for that ArtoftheGB. Looks like you have proved my point. You have nothing to support your statements and can only resort to name-calling and abuse when you are called on it. You are right on one issue though--it is pointless discussing this with you.
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Re: Permafrost melt releasing vast amounts of methane and CO

Postby Artofthedeal » Nov 29th, 2012, 3:55 pm

ForestfortheTrees wrote: You have nothing to support your statements .


You should look in the mirror when you type that.
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Re: Permafrost melt releasing vast amounts of methane and CO

Postby Nibs » Nov 29th, 2012, 9:50 pm

arties facts and data are quite obvious in their absence. Insults from him do not equal facts or any sort of supporting data.
C'mon artie Gee Be a sport and give us peer reviewed data in support of your wild conspiracy theories.
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Re: Permafrost melt releasing vast amounts of methane and CO

Postby 5VP » Nov 30th, 2012, 11:41 am

Oh boy...

Regardless of the questionable reasons for the red herrings presented here by the cyborgs among us who thrive on and seem hell-bent on protecting and amplifying their need for petrochemical laced air (brain lube??), our government seems to think there may be a developing problem even here in the formerly clean air spaces of the Okanagan....

http://www.bcairquality.ca/topics/no-ro ... -smog.html

Our already proven industrial based polluting, unsustainable, "false-economic" activities combined with natural methane and CO2 emissions do not make for a bright future for any living thing regardless of sidebar finger pointing or scoffing denials cuz sooner than later there will be more environmental and economic collapses of exponentially increasing and devastating magnitudes...

What are we all going to do about it ??

Carry on with our consumeristic heads planted firmly up our butts or will we hold our heads upright with clear visions of our own wasteful roles in this problem and a rational understanding of how to deal with it?

At this stage of human development, pretending there isn't a problem or dodging responsibility and doing nothing is no longer a rational option.

It's likely already too late...
Infinite rider on the big dogma...
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Re: Permafrost melt releasing vast amounts of methane and CO

Postby StraitTalk » Dec 2nd, 2012, 6:09 pm

And luckily, you are not alone in thinking that. More and more people are becoming aware and the price of gas steadily increases (which is terrific for the environment).
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