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W.V.O. to replace diesel

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W.V.O. to replace diesel

Postby Graham Adder » Feb 15th, 2013, 12:31 am

If there was a place where you could get your diesel powered vehicle converted to run year 'round on Waste Vegetable Oil, and a supplier for fuel (filtered oil) that was easy to access and reliable, would you do the conversion?

Let's go on the assumption that you could get the WVO for half the price of regular diesel.
Let's assume the cost of conversion would total $3000.00 all inclusive with an added bonus of 200 litres of free WVO as a promo.

Feedback?
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Re: W.V.O. to replace diesel

Postby Glacier » Feb 15th, 2013, 1:03 am

An old guy I know in the Cherryville area (a retired pastor, school bus driver, and hobbiest/inventor/ jack of all trades kind of guy) converted his vehicle for a mere couple hundred dollars. It took him some time perfecting and fine tuning they system, but being a retired 70 something year old means he probably has a lot more time on his hands than the rest of us.

Used cooking oil is free, but he still has to start and stop his vehicle on diesel.

To answer your question, yes, I'd go for it.
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Re: W.V.O. to replace diesel

Postby Bsuds » Feb 15th, 2013, 7:57 am

If I could get the fuel where ever I travel then yes. My truck is used 99% to pull an RV so if it was only local it would do me no good.
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Re: W.V.O. to replace diesel

Postby fluffy » Feb 15th, 2013, 8:20 am

Bsuds wrote:If I could get the fuel where ever...


Like anywhere they sell french fries? That narrows it down. :137:
quick - report this post to a mod
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Re: W.V.O. to replace diesel

Postby Bsuds » Feb 15th, 2013, 8:44 am

-fluffy- wrote:
Like anywhere they sell french fries? That narrows it down. :137:


Which is great if you can carry all the filtering equipment with you and wait for it to process.
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Re: W.V.O. to replace diesel

Postby Graham Adder » Feb 15th, 2013, 11:04 am

If you are handy and capable, you can indeed do your own conversion.
There are kits available that look after all the planning and trials and errors though, and that's the route I'd promote.
The WVO used to be free everywhere, but many places are being paid now for their used oil. To buy it at a low cost, take the time and energy to pick it up and filter it, store it and make it available does incur costs.

As for using WVO on the road...the kits offer the choice of using a separate tank for WVO and another for diesel. A flick of a switch on your dash turns off one tank and begins feeding off the other.

There are also portable filtering systems now available, so if a person was so inclined, you could in fact take a centrifuge filter along for the ride in your RV's "garage" or the back of your truck box. Filtering can be done now without having to use settling tanks or taking the time one used to have to take to process your fuel. It's now a fairly quick process.

There are still MANY places to get free oil, especially if one is mobile.
There are even web sites that point you in the right direction for free oil supplies as well as pre-filtered "stations" to buy WVO at a highly reduced price over diesel.

In my experience with WVO, the fuel actually burns much cleaner than diesel (no black smoke) with the only trade off being the smell of fries to those behind you in traffic.

The engine oil needs to be changed less (every 7 to 10 thou...rather than every 5) and the usual deposits one gets with regular diesel are virtually eliminated.

In short, WVO is a cleaner burning fuel that causes less wear on your wallet as well as your engine.

The added bonus is that WVO is a carbon neutral fuel.
You will not only be snubbing the big oil co's, but also you'll be treating the planet better by not extracting fossil fuel and adding stored carbon back into the atmosphere.

So, this is an idea I've floated for awhile now.
If I do my conversion (already have the kit), I'd like to start a WVO filtering station for others to rely on for a steady supply of fuel.
I'd also hook folks up with the kit, and an exceptionally good local mechanic to do the install.

Essentially, I'd like to make it an easy transition for people.
Drop your vehicle off one day, pick it up the next, filled with WVO and ready to start driving your arse off exploring this incredible world we live in.

Carbon neutral.
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Re: W.V.O. to replace diesel

Postby twobits » Feb 16th, 2013, 8:15 am

The reason this will never fly is that there is only enough waste veggie oil to supply a fraction of one percent of diesel vehicles on the road. As more people buy into this novelty conversion, competing demand for the product will just drive the price up to that of regular diesel. It's already happening to a certain extent. Only a few years back, restaurants had to pay people like Mc'Clouds Byproducts to pick up their fryer waste oil. Now they get paid for it and some even lock their barrels in cages now because the early adopters of the conversion are stealing the oil out of the back alleys.
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Re: W.V.O. to replace diesel

Postby YoungFarmer » Feb 16th, 2013, 9:07 am

I have been considering switching over my tractor and a farm truck for a while now. My old school tractors i'm sure would have no problem converting over, although I am worried about what would go wrong with my newer diesel truck. I am on the hunt for an older cab-over diesel import truck when I find that i will be doing the conversion. There is a farmer down in penticton that has a similar set-up to what im wanting. One fellow I talked to with an oil run vw uses toilet paper rolls to filter his oil.

I considered making a swap kit when i first got interested in the idea. My problem was the type of people who are interested in the conversion are also the type of people who would rather build it themselves, kinda like me.
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Re: W.V.O. to replace diesel

Postby Graham Adder » Feb 16th, 2013, 9:58 pm

twobits wrote:The reason this will never fly is that there is only enough waste veggie oil to supply a fraction of one percent of diesel vehicles on the road. As more people buy into this novelty conversion, competing demand for the product will just drive the price up to that of regular diesel. It's already happening to a certain extent. Only a few years back, restaurants had to pay people like Mc'Clouds Byproducts to pick up their fryer waste oil. Now they get paid for it and some even lock their barrels in cages now because the early adopters of the conversion are stealing the oil out of the back alleys.

I disagree that it would never fly.
I disagree that it's a novelty idea as well.
I also disagree with your fraction of one percent figure.
I'm not sure if you have a source for that info, but I can tell you that if you knew the amount of WVO that goes into the Glenmore Landfill each day of the week, you'd be astounded.
Many thousands of litres per week of useable automobile fuel gets thrown into the dump.

Not everyone is going to convert.
Being the supplier for the ones that do could be quite worthwhile.
If it was myself running the show, I'd be more inclined to keep prices low and enjoy the benefits of a "community".

There are already alternative oil sources being "grown" for fuel use. Trying not to take food from hungry mouths leads one to follow up on growing algae to extract the oils and use for fuel, which could lead to another strain down the road should the WVO sources dry up or become bought up. Novelty?

Not all restaurants are getting paid for their oil.
Some are not interested in the hassles that can come up for the relative pittance they get for their WVO.
Others are not under contract to sell to collectors and of those there are some more than willing to sign a contract with the right person for the right reasons.
I've done my research in this area. I've asked several friers in the area.

The theft issue you raise with people stealing WVO is not something I have run into in my door knocking research. Perhaps that's the case in more populated areas, but around here at this point I'm not inclined to believe that is a current issue. All of the locals I know that burn WVO have their sources lined up and have no need to start thieving WVO.

There are other sources of oil to burn than most are aware of.
Burning plant based oils is a very sustainable alternative to burning fossil fuels.
Carbon neutral.
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Re: W.V.O. to replace diesel

Postby Graham Adder » Feb 16th, 2013, 10:07 pm

ready made kits.

http://www.plantdrive.ca/

If the filtering is done to a high standard, it will not do any harm to a newer diesel.
New diesel or old diesel a diesel runs on diesel.

The only issue is that WVO or other plant based oils thicken or gel in extreme cold. The systems used now have heaters set up to bring the oil up to temperature before flicking the switch to run on WVO.
You start your vehicle each day on regular diesel, but after a warm up period (usually by the time you're ready to drive away) you switch over to your WVO. Shortly before shutting your engine off, you switch back to regular diesel to refill the lines so that next start up your fuel is the regular diesel. There is a warning beep to tell you if you've forgotten to purge your lines so that you don't make the mistake of leaving your vehicle with WVO in the lines.
If you are only going to be shutting off for a short period, you need not do the purge. At the end of the day when you're ready to park ol' Bessy for the night, you do the purge.
It's a simple switch, not a complicated procedure. Purging the lines sounds like a pain, but it's not...it really is just flicking a toggle.
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Re: W.V.O. to replace diesel

Postby Graham Adder » Feb 16th, 2013, 10:14 pm

I know a fellow that runs WVO all year long and parks in a heated garage.
He rarely purges his lines as his truck is always warm when parked for any period of time.

IF...IF you ever forget to purge...ignore the beep...whatever...the cure is warmth.
Either find a way to park in a warm shop or garage or storage tent...or...as another fellow in Powell River has done:
Carry a large tarp and a butane cook stove with you, or have access to them.
He has forgotten twice now and used a large tarp over his vehicle with the butane stove parked underneath to warm up the fuel lines. He has an old system with no beeper/warning system.

I'd make sure to have the warning system in place and working. I don't want to ever forget. Any hassle is a hassle in my books. All hassles are a drag.
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Re: W.V.O. to replace diesel

Postby twobits » Feb 17th, 2013, 12:52 pm

Graham Adder wrote: I disagree that it would never fly.
I disagree that it's a novelty idea as well.
I also disagree with your fraction of one percent figure.
I'm not sure if you have a source for that info, but I can tell you that if you knew the amount of WVO that goes into the Glenmore Landfill each day of the week, you'd be astounded.
Many thousands of litres per week of useable automobile fuel gets thrown into the dump.

Not everyone is going to convert.
Being the supplier for the ones that do could be quite worthwhile.
If it was myself running the show, I'd be more inclined to keep prices low and enjoy the benefits of a "community".

There are already alternative oil sources being "grown" for fuel use. Trying not to take food from hungry mouths leads one to follow up on growing algae to extract the oils and use for fuel, which could lead to another strain down the road should the WVO sources dry up or become bought up. Novelty?

Not all restaurants are getting paid for their oil.
Some are not interested in the hassles that can come up for the relative pittance they get for their WVO.
Others are not under contract to sell to collectors and of those there are some more than willing to sign a contract with the right person for the right reasons.
I've done my research in this area. I've asked several friers in the area.

The theft issue you raise with people stealing WVO is not something I have run into in my door knocking research. Perhaps that's the case in more populated areas, but around here at this point I'm not inclined to believe that is a current issue. All of the locals I know that burn WVO have their sources lined up and have no need to start thieving WVO.

There are other sources of oil to burn than most are aware of.
Burning plant based oils is a very sustainable alternative to burning fossil fuels.
Carbon neutral.


I'm not opposed to what you are promoting, I just think you are way overestimating the amount of WVO that is available. You mention other plant based sources such as algae and that is absolutely true. The cost of that as a fuel source is still cost prohibitive at this point and it is not the WVO use you are promoting in this thread.
Common sense tells me that if you took the cpl of gallons of oil out of every fryer every day (reality is more like once a week) in a city say the size of Kelowna, you'd end up with enough oil/fuel for a hundred or so vehicles at best. Nice idea for using a waste product but hardly scalable in any way.
If the price of fossil fuel diesel gets much higher, we might see people starting to buy pails of cheap veggie oil from costco for their vehicles and that wouldn't be a good thing for food prices based on the example of corn and ethenol.

Perhaps you can answer this? I have heard talk of people that put 5 gallons of wvo into their tanks and then fill up with regular diesel....a blend so to speak......and the vehicle apparently runs just fine without any modification whatsoever. Have you heard anything about this because it would seem to be far more practicle than bothering with a converstion. I would be pleased to save 25 or 30 bucks at every fill up!
Also heard this works but that it only works in older model diesels and works especially well in Mercedes diesels pre mid 1990's
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Re: W.V.O. to replace diesel

Postby Graham Adder » Feb 18th, 2013, 2:56 pm

twobits wrote: in a city say the size of Kelowna, you'd end up with enough oil/fuel for a hundred or so vehicles at best. Nice idea for using a waste product but hardly scalable in any way.
If the price of fossil fuel diesel gets much higher, we might see people starting to buy pails of cheap veggie oil from costco for their vehicles and that wouldn't be a good thing for food prices based on the example of corn and ethenol.

Perhaps you can answer this? I have heard talk of people that put 5 gallons of wvo into their tanks and then fill up with regular diesel....a blend so to speak......and the vehicle apparently runs just fine without any modification whatsoever. Have you heard anything about this because it would seem to be far more practicle than bothering with a converstion. I would be pleased to save 25 or 30 bucks at every fill up!
Also heard this works but that it only works in older model diesels and works especially well in Mercedes diesels pre mid 1990's

I wasn't intending to develop a scaleable business so much as being the supplier for a community of like minded folks that want a cheaper alternative that doesn't burn fossil fuel to the extent that we currently do.
The veggie oil at costco is usually slightly more expensive than diesel at the pump.

Yes...you can burn plant oils either mixed or not...so long as the weather is warm enough to keep the oil from going thick. The purpose of the conversion is more about setting up a two tank system so that you never have an issue with thick oil.
Some people blend WVO or other plant oils with diesel, but I've never heard of anyone doing so during colder months, as the gelling issue would keep that option out of the picture.

During our warm summers...many people either blend or run straight WVO.

Some farmers that produce canola, corn or other plants that oil is easily extracted from run their equipment on the byproducts of their manufacturing process.

A diesel engine can also burn used motor oil. Filtered and warmed to keep it thin...or adding chemicals to keep it thin...either way.

Diesel engines were originally designed to run on plant based oils, but petroleum based oils were pushed into the scene and after a century of propaganda and habit, we've forgotten that they were not intended to run on petroleum diesel...but rather veggie oil...I believe it was peanut oil originally. I may be incorrect on this.
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