Population puts world on brink

[grammafreddy]

Religions prevent humanity from flourishing.

For someone who thinks anything to do with religion is bad, all wealthy people are smart and earned there wealth, and all poor people are lazy and deserve to be poor, your credibility is sure taking a beating.

If what you just spouted was true then yuppers, it would be. However, it is not true so therefore I think my credibility is perfectly fine, thank you very much. The only part you got right is that all religions are bad.

[The Green Barbarian]

don't listen to the nonsensical insults GF - unless you advocate a communist/socialist "solution" to all the world's ills, you hate the poor. It's the standard default reaction to anyone who isn't in favour of just handing over everything to a system where everyone is considered "equal" and no one is given any incentive for innovating, or thinking, or doing, for fear of them getting "rich" - the ultimate sin in the eyes of the socialist.

[steven lloyd]

don't listen to the nonsensical insults GF - unless you advocate a communist/socialist "solution" to all the world's ills, you hate the poor.

If you two could only take a step closer to the center and see how ridiculous your criticisms actually are. I haven’t seen one poster from the left advocate anything close to what you and grammy are accusing them of. All you’re doing is showing how completely incapable you are of considering an idea different from your own without going into some default “You want the government to take care of you, I’m going fishing” attack mode. Good grief. Read one pop novel and you've got it figured out. The solutions to the problems and challenges we are facing in our country and around the world are not going to come from one extreme ideology OR the other. One of the greatest challenges we are facing right now is the degree of polarization that exists in thinking and the unwillingness of one camp to challenge their own thinking and objectively consider the viewpoints of the other camp. This is clearly evidenced by the demonstrated lack of understanding of any paradigm different than their own, and sometimes even of their own supposed paradigm. Truly, those most critical of socialism seem to be those people who have the least understanding of the model (although there are those from the left who are equally as ignorant about the paradigm of capitalism). Some of these discussions have actually become boring in their continued ridiculousness.

[grammafreddy]

If you two could only take a step closer to the center and see how ridiculous your criticisms actually are. I haven’t seen one poster from the left advocate anything close to what you and grammy are accusing them of. All you’re doing is showing how completely incapable you are of considering an idea different from your own without going into some default “You want the government to take care of you, I’m going fishing” attack mode. Good grief. Read one pop novel and you've got it figured out. The solutions to the problems and challenges we are facing in our country and around the world are not going to come from one extreme ideology OR the other. One of the greatest challenges we are facing right now is the degree of polarization that exists in thinking and the unwillingness of one camp to challenge their own thinking and objectively consider the viewpoints of the other camp. This is clearly evidenced by the demonstrated lack of understanding of any paradigm different than their own, and sometimes even of their own supposed paradigm. Truly, those most critical of socialism seem to be those people who have the least understanding of the model (although there are those from the left who are equally as ignorant about the paradigm of capitalism). Some of these discussions have actually become boring in their continued ridiculousness.

You keep accusing me of being far from centre. That's not true. I have one leg hooked over the top rail into the left camp and you keep missing my point about "who the hell is gonna pay for all this social giveaway?".

When you get that all figured out, please post it. I have yet to see a leftist post where all this money for all the desired social crap is going to come from, unless it is to steal more from the wealthy. Until then, I am going fishing. On. MY. dime.

[jennylives]

Most of us will pay for it Grammafreddy, same as now. And also the same as now, we will each contribute more or less.

[grammafreddy]

Most of us will pay for it Grammafreddy, same as now. And also the same as now, we will each contribute more or less.

So you support much higher taxation on the low and middle class. Cool.

[steven lloyd]

All you’re doing is showing how completely incapable you are of considering an idea different from your own without going into some default “You want the government to take care of you, I’m going fishing” attack mode.

"who the hell is gonna pay for all this social giveaway?".

:dyinglaughing: I forgot that one. I suppose that might be because no one has said anything about a social giveaway

- except you, of course. Thanks for trying so hard to understand what other people are posting grammy. That is bound to help further this discussion along a more productive route.

:smt039

[zzontar]

I think Gramma needs to move to one of those countries where the majority are struggling and starving while a small minority are filthy rich, usually from exploiting many of the poor. I see nothing wrong with letting individuals or companies become wealthy, but with a cap. It's much better for a village to have one millionaire and the rest middle class with the opportunity to advance, than one multi-billionaire and the rest poor with little hope of advancement... unless you're into greed of course.

[Corneliousrooster]

I love that so many people adore a system with no limits - think it is the greatest thing with zero foresight of where no limits leads. Everything I have encountered in this life has limits, so to blindly follow this system is darwinism at its best.

I look forward to the eventual collapse! It is most of the people at the top of the system that will have no coping skills for survival without a hefty bank account and people "beneath them" to do things for them.

The story Galapagus - by Kurt Vonnegut illustrated the power shift when the power of the dollar suddenly becomes not so powerful, and the food suddenly gained a value unheard of. Didn't matter how much $$$ you had squirreled away as it became worth less than the paper it was printed on.

If people would stop chasing dollars and equating money with happiness the world would be far better off and there would be plenty to go round. I learned this in my early 20's and have shaped my life around it. I live comfortably - I REDUCE, reuse, recycle - I pay no attention to ads - the name brands I own, someone else owned first, hardly worn (if at all) and now I own them for peanuts. My house is fully furnished (aside from my bed) with furniture someone else saw no value in and discarded. My tools are used, my vehicles are used, my dishes are used, my hobby equipment is used, my computer is used. All work wonderfully and all were bought for less than 25% of brand new.

My household puts out 1 bag of garbage about every 4-5 weeks - I compost all food scraps and recycle the nutrients in my garden. I grow a lot of food and preserve it for the winter months.

My spouse works less than 60 hours a pay period, and I work less than 9 months a year (by choice). We live below the "living wage" or "poverty line" or whatever you want to call being poor - yet most people think we are doing far better (they don't know my shirt was purchased for $1.00 and my shoes for less than $5 unless I tell them). I managed a chain of succesful business's by my mid 20's and my spouse pursued college. She worked her career for 7 years when we both decided we were unhappy (yet conflicted since we figured we were doing what you were supposed to do). At that point, we picked up, moved to a more affordable, slower paced life (even though she still had 4 more years of student loan debt to pay off) and never looked back. We currently make about 1/4 of what we were making 10 years ago - and spend about a tenth. Best decision we ever made.

Most people we know can't fathom how we do it - meanwhile they are consumed with $$$ stress, feeling trapped in careers they never enjoyed (but chased the $$$ when they were choosing their path) - they have all the brand new toys, pay a hefty percentage of their income to interest, and feel unfulfilled and for the most part unhappy. We socially condition people to pursue these types of paths, while my lifestyle comes off as wrong, or lazy, or cheap.

I do find as time goes on though, many friends and family have begun asking us for advice because they are seeing the results that we feel everyday. Canada always ranks high on the consumer spending, consumer debt and the tons of waste per person that ends up in landfills. I think it would be wonderous if a large population such as canada adopted a different social approach to life. We would need far less GDP, and taxes, and infrastructure, to function for the population than the current pursuit for More, more, more - where success is measured in dollar signs rather than personal fulfillment. The globe needs to figure out the difference between "wants" and "needs" and find a balance. Right now it is driven by gluttonous pursuits that benefit a very select few at the expense of many.

[grammafreddy]

Awww, yer picking on me - boo hoooooooooooooooo.

You want me to take all your ranting seriously while you consume more and more? YOU are the ones making those wealthy corporations richer and the wealthy people more powerful. YOU. Every dollar you spend, every credit card purchase you make, goes into their pockets in one way or another.

YOU are the ones who want more services, more handouts, more tax breaks, more health services, more social programs/ spending, more everything from government. Government is you. You need to pay somehow for all this more you think you should have. SL wants more money for the justice system. SL is already a paid employee of the government who is paid from your wallet - and he supports you spending more. (Its actually one of the areas of government that I do agree needs more spent on it and more accountability and a more intelligent way of doing things but it is gonna cost more from your wages to do it).

This isn't a matter of left vs right, socialism vs capitalism. It's a matter of how the hell are ya gonna pay for what you think you should have? It doesn't matter what political party is in power - they all promise what the voters think they want and nobody is saying how the bill will be paid if they actually do what they say they will do if elected. Then when it comes out of your pockets from higher taxation, you start screaming because you can't afford to have more taken off your paycheque. Taxes are too high already, you say. My take-home is reduced even more, you say. You want government to reduce your income tax but you still think the government should give you the "more" you want. Your champagne tastes are at odds with your beer budget.

For some odd reason, it just never occurs to you to do more for yourself and ask less of the public purse. It doesn't enter your mind that you should reduce your spending in order to make ends meet in your personal lives. It doesn't equate to you that government is YOU and that government has to get the money for what you think you want from somewhere - and your wages and taxes are the somewhere.

And then, because you don't want to be responsible for yourselves and your greed, you cast about and decide that the wealthy folks and the business world should cover your little precious ass. You get some idiotic notion they don't pay enough - some twit says his secretary pays more percent taxes and you run off foaming at the mouth for blood (and taxes rate increases) - demanding that they should pay more - a higher percent of their income. You don't stop your frenzy to think about any ramifications of that and what would be the result if that was to actually happen. You don't think about job losses (yours), higher prices (to you - the end user), industries closing their doors or moving offshore, or even the reduced philanthropic contributions they voluntarily make now but which would be either reduced or disappear.

There is greed, I agree - but it is YOU who are the greedy ones.

[zzontar]

Who are you calling greedy? I, Like C Rooster, am almost at the poverty line as my line of work has slowed down quite a bit. I could have easily gone on EI seeing I've paid into it my whole life, but as I could still get by much to everyone's surprise I chose not to... pretty greedy eh? I consume little and produce a minimal amount of garbage. I eat healthy and exercise so I don't use the health care system unless absolutely necessary, which is pretty well never... so greedy! I never had kids but have no problem paying into the education system, and volunteer my time when I can. Even though I'm barely scraping by, I do these things to make my community/ city/ world a better place for all. I guess in your eyes that's more greedy than someone who's filthy rich but doesn't want to give away any extra wealth they'd never use anyway.

[The Green Barbarian]

Who are you calling greedy? I, Like C Rooster, am almost at the poverty line .

what's the poverty line?

[zzontar]

what's the poverty line?

You know, the poverty line... the place where the greedy, selfish people are!

http://www.ccsd.ca/factsheets/fs_ncwpl01.htm

[10Sne1]

what's the poverty line?

You know, the poverty line... the place where the greedy, selfish people are!

http://www.ccsd.ca/factsheets/fs_ncwpl01.htm

According to your link, they are mostly in Saskatchewan.

[steven lloyd]

You want me to take all your ranting seriously while you consume more and more? YOU are the ones making those wealthy corporations richer and the wealthy people more powerful. YOU. Every dollar you spend, every credit card purchase you make, goes into their pockets in one way or another.

YOU are the ones who want more services, more handouts, more tax breaks, more health services, more social programs/ spending, more everything from government. Government is you. You need to pay somehow for all this more you think you should have. SL wants more money for the justice system. SL is already a paid employee of the government who is paid from your wallet - and he supports you spending more. (Its actually one of the areas of government that I do agree needs more spent on it and more accountability and a more intelligent way of doing things but it is gonna cost more from your wages to do it).

This isn't a matter of left vs right, socialism vs capitalism. It's a matter of how the hell are ya gonna pay for what you think you should have? It doesn't matter what political party is in power - they all promise what the voters think they want and nobody is saying how the bill will be paid if they actually do what they say they will do if elected. Then when it comes out of your pockets from higher taxation, you start screaming because you can't afford to have more taken off your paycheque. Taxes are too high already, you say. My take-home is reduced even more, you say. You want government to reduce your income tax but you still think the government should give you the "more" you want. Your champagne tastes are at odds with your beer budget.

For some odd reason, it just never occurs to you to do more for yourself and ask less of the public purse. It doesn't enter your mind that you should reduce your spending in order to make ends meet in your personal lives. It doesn't equate to you that government is YOU and that government has to get the money for what you think you want from somewhere - and your wages and taxes are the somewhere.

And then, because you don't want to be responsible for yourselves and your greed, you cast about and decide that the wealthy folks and the business world should cover your little precious ass. You get some idiotic notion they don't pay enough - some twit says his secretary pays more percent taxes and you run off foaming at the mouth for blood (and taxes rate increases) - demanding that they should pay more - a higher percent of their income. You don't stop your frenzy to think about any ramifications of that and what would be the result if that was to actually happen. You don't think about job losses (yours), higher prices (to you - the end user), industries closing their doors or moving offshore, or even the reduced philanthropic contributions they voluntarily make now but which would be either reduced or disappear.

There is greed, I agree - but it is YOU who are the greedy ones.

Who exactly are you directing this rant at grammy ? YOU are making some awfully big (and unfounded) assumptions.