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Gratuities in Kelowna - Can anyone explain?

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Re: Gratuities in Kelowna - Can anyone explain?

Postby Katfish1 » Dec 10th, 2012, 9:42 am

Teaps wrote:My question is this. If anyone has no intention of tipping at all to begin with, then what does it matter to you if the service is good or not?

Put yourselves in the shoes of a 19-22 year old female student who had the choice of A. Working at McDonald's B. Working at a restaurant.

Let's examine these choices, remember, you are a 19-22 year old female student.

A. McDonald's gives you absolutely zero people skills and you don't have to be a good server because nobody expects tippable service. Your starting wage is $11.00/hr and you work 25 hours a week for a typical paycheck of $550 biweekly. Pretty decent paycheck

B. Working at a restaurant, give you experience working with customers and lets you learn many people skills. Provide what people EXPECT to be tippable service. Your starting wage is $8.00/hr at IF YOU'RE LUCKY, 15 hours per week for a typical check of $240.00 bi weekly.

Now, tell me why these girls SHOULDN'T expect to be tipped?

Having a girl wait on you is a luxury. If you want Luxury, Then you sure as damn well better tip them! If you don't want to tip, then STAY THE HELL AT HOME AND COOK, nobody TOLD you to go out for dinner/lunch; these girl's boss's TOLD them to wait on your sorry butts regardless of your attitude towards tipping.


Isn't minimum wage $10.50 now, can employers legally pay $8.00/hr?
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Re: Gratuities in Kelowna - Can anyone explain?

Postby cate1896 » Dec 10th, 2012, 10:26 am

Yes, there is a separate, lower wage for servers (I think of just places that serve alcohol) since their wage is supplemented by tips.
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Re: Gratuities in Kelowna - Can anyone explain?

Postby 36Drew » Dec 10th, 2012, 12:44 pm

Teaps wrote:Your starting wage is $8.00/hr at IF YOU'RE LUCKY, 15 hours per week.


$9.00/hr, actually. Nobody's forcing you to work at that rate. If you don't like it, get a better-paying job.
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Re: Gratuities in Kelowna - Can anyone explain?

Postby 36Drew » Dec 10th, 2012, 12:48 pm

boardsweeper wrote:Lets start taking down subway, A&W, Quiznos, limo drivers, tim hortons, starbucks, five guys burger and fries, edo japan. opa of greece, anyone want to add anywhere I've missed out... most of these locations have jars beside the tills...and for what its worth they provide more or less of the same service, and fast food does way less work then your server does....



It's been suggested that the whole gratuity thing is getting way out of hand. You don't think this is indicative of that?
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Re: Gratuities in Kelowna - Can anyone explain?

Postby crookedmember » Dec 10th, 2012, 1:04 pm

Teaps wrote:
Having a girl wait on you is a luxury. If you want Luxury, Then you sure as damn well better tip them! If you don't want to tip, then STAY THE HELL AT HOME AND COOK, nobody TOLD you to go out for dinner/lunch; these girl's boss's TOLD them to wait on your sorry butts regardless of your attitude towards tipping.


I'm quite sure if you remind your guests of this as soon as they are seated, you will always be tipped appropriately.
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Re: Gratuities in Kelowna - Can anyone explain?

Postby Roadster » Dec 10th, 2012, 2:07 pm

Hey Teeps,,, they are all young women? Funny I have had men serve my table,,, and older women too. Its a job no matter how you look at it and if they figured Gratuity was a guarentee and opted out of McDs over that then they fooled themselves,,, tips are not a given, they are gifts.

Oh and as far as people skills, you get that from every job where you serve customers also most jobs, ever see a supervisor in a big place with no people skills? They suck at their job, people dont like to work for them. Sure McDs will give you that and an understanding what good work is too likely as most jobs will provide. Gas station workers,,, ever see one of them with no people skills? Ya they dont get tips but they do want their customers back and those w/o people skills kill that possibility.
I can tell you right now, there is one gas station I dont go to and havent ever since the owner told me off for no reason,,, Some friends thought my story was kinda wild too and they said they wouldnt go back there either, whether they do or not my story didnt help the gas station owner any. He has No people skills, its not a good thing for him. He should have great people skills if he cares about his business at all.
People skills come naturally for most after some experience.
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Re: Gratuities in Kelowna - Can anyone explain?

Postby 797hauler » Dec 10th, 2012, 2:29 pm

Teaps

Your wasting your time, 10-15 people on these forums dont think servers, or anyone deserves a tip unless you claim them and EVERBODY else gets one too. My advice would be :popcorn:

But to add to the thread so my post doesnt get deleted...




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Tips and Gratuities
•Introduction
•Employer responsibilities
•Does Income From Tips and Gratuities Form Part of an Employee's Pensionable and/or Insurable earnings?◦Controlled Tips
◦Direct Tips
◦Declared Tips

•For more information
•Legislative references

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Introduction

This document provides information on how tips and gratuities are to be treated for purposes of the Canada Pension Plan (CPP) and the Employment Insurance Act (EIA). In particular, it will address whether or not income from tips and gratuities form part of an employee's pensionable and/or insurable earnings.

Employer responsibilities

All employers are required by law to deduct CPP contributions and EI premiums from amounts they pay to their employees. Employers must remit these amounts to the Canada Revenue Agency (CRA) along with their share of CPP contributions and EI premiums. More information on employer responsibilities and obligations can be found through our Payroll menu page.

Does Income From Tips and Gratuities Form Part of an Employee's Pensionable and/or Insurable earnings?

Gratuities or tips received by employees are income earned in respect of employment for purposes of the Income Tax Act. However, it must be determined whether tips received in the course of employment are considered pensionable earnings under the CPP and/or are insurable earnings under the EIA. This answer depends on whether the tips are considered to have been paid by the employer (controlled tips), whether they are considered to have been paid by the client (direct tips) or whether they are declared tips in the province of Quebec.

Controlled Tips

Controlled tips are gratuities that are controlled by the employer. Since they are controlled by the employer, the employer is considered to have paid these amounts to the employee. The following are some examples of controlled tips:
• The employer adds a mandatory service charge to a client's bill to cover tips;
•The employer adds a percentage to a client's bill to cover tips;
•Tips allocated to employees using a tip sharing formula determined by the employer;
•Tips that an employer includes in his business income, later expenses and redistributes to employees in the form of pay;
•Tips that the employees are required to turn over to their employer and are later distributed to the employees;
•Cash tips that are deposited in the employer's bank account and become the property of (or even commingled with the property of) the employer and subsequently paid out to the employees.

We use the term 'controlled tips' within this article to denote the principles of employer control/employer possession over the tips and the employer's obligation to pay the tip to the employee as expressed by the courts.

Controlled tips form part of the employee's total remuneration and are subject to CPP contributions and EI premiums being deducted at source, provided that this person is employed in pensionable and/or insurable employment.

Direct Tips

Direct tips are gratuities that are paid directly by the client to the employee and that are not subject to any of the forms of control by the employer as mentioned above under the heading controlled tips. The following are some examples of direct tips:
• A client leaves money on the table at the end of the meal and the server keeps the whole amount;
• A client gives a tip directly to a bellhop, door person, car attendant, porter; etc.
• Tips pooled and/or shared among employees in a manner determined by the employees (as opposed to the employer);
• When paying the bill by credit card, a client includes an amount for a tip on the credit card and the employer returns the tip amount in cash to the employee;
• When paying the bill by debit card, a client includes an amount for a tip and the employer returns the tip amount in cash to the employee;

We use the term 'direct tips' to denote the principle of when the employer has no control over the tip amount and no control over the tip distribution. Direct tips are considered to have been paid by the client and not the employer. In these situations, the employer is merely a conduit for the tip from the client to the worker.

[color=#0000FF]Direct tips are not subject to CPP contributions and/or EI premiums. However, an employee can elect to make CPP
contributions on tip amounts earned in the course of pensionable employment where the tip income is found not to be subject to CPP contributions at source. The individual will complete a form CPT20 to elect to pay the CPP contributions.

It is possible for an employee to receive both controlled and direct tips. In such a situation, only the controlled tips will form part of the employee's pensionable and/or insurable earnings.

Declared Tips

Declared tips are the amount of tips that provincial law requires an employee to declare to his or her employer along with their controlled tips. In the province of Quebec, the Taxation Act provides specific guidance for employers in the hospitality sector whose employees carry out their duties in a regulated establishment. Employees working in a regulated establishment in the province of Quebec must declare their direct tips to their employer. For the purposes of the EIA, employees in the province of Quebec working in a regulated establishment will have the amount of their declared tips included in their insurable earnings along with their controlled tips. Currently, Quebec is the only province that has tax legislation requiring employees to declare their tips to their employer.[/color]


K so it looks like the majoraty of you are wrong!

http://www.cra-arc.gc.ca/tx/hm/xplnd/tps-eng.html :123:
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Re: Gratuities in Kelowna - Can anyone explain?

Postby Jo » Dec 10th, 2012, 3:35 pm

A little less hostility, people.
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Re: Gratuities in Kelowna - Can anyone explain?

Postby LivinginKelowna » Dec 10th, 2012, 3:51 pm

boardsweeper wrote:Teaps
Your wasting your time, 10-15 people on these forums dont think servers, or anyone deserves a tip unless you claim them and EVERBODY else gets one too. ..... Currently, Quebec is the only province that has tax legislation requiring employees to declare their tips to their employer.[/color]


K so it looks like the majoraty of you are wrong!
http://www.cra-arc.gc.ca/tx/hm/xplnd/tps-eng.html :123:



I don't know if I quite understand what you are getting at with this post?

Tips are not considered as income when it comes to CPP? Ok
Tips are not considered as income when it comes to EI? Ok

Only in the province of Quebec is an employee required to inform their employer of their tips? Ok

Not one of those statements has anything to do with the employee being required to report their tips as income.

AND

That really isn't even relevant

The points that a lot of people are making here (I feel is),

1) Servers feel entitled to tipping regardless of the service they provide.
2) Tipping is not a requirement, it is a gesture on behalf of the client to say a little extra thanks for doing their job well
3) If you (as a server) have a problem with a $10.00 per hour job and completely rely on your tips to make ends meet, then perhaps you should find a new line of work

Now this is only what I take from the conversation, if there is more, then I would like to have clarification
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Re: Gratuities in Kelowna - Can anyone explain?

Postby grammafreddy » Dec 10th, 2012, 4:07 pm

boardsweeper wrote:Teaps

Your wasting your time, 10-15 people on these forums dont think servers, or anyone deserves a tip unless you claim them and EVERBODY else gets one too. My advice would be :popcorn:



While you were busy counting these 10-15 people, I hope you didn't lump me in with them.

I don't mind tipping (as a gift) if I have received service over and above what is considered normal service which the server gets a wage to perform from her boss. No exceptional extra service means no tip.

I totally disagree with the whole concept of tipping as a means for the restaurant industry to get away with a lower minimum wage for people who serve food and booze.

I totally disagree with the server having to share her tips with other staff. Other staff also gets wages for doing their job and those wages are not at the same lower minimum paid to servers, either. If my meal is extra wonderful, I will tip the kitchen staff but not tip the server if she/he has not been exceptional.

I totally disagree with servers having to declare their tips as income. I consider them "thank you gifts", the same as the tip (gift) I give the paperboy and the mailman. I don't think workers should have to pay income tax on gifts.

I disagree with this concept of subsidizing lower minimum wages with automatic tips. IMO that is shoddy and tacky.

However, since it is currently the law that tips are to be included as income, not declaring them and not paying income tax on them is against the law.

I am really quite surprised that servers have not banded together and created a union for themselves to fight this. If there is already a union for them, I am surprised that more of them have not joined and used the union to fight against this practice. I don't recall any disagreement from the servers when this whole thing was under discussion. The restaurant owners' opinions sure were public, though, as they pushed for that lower minimum wage for their serving staff. I didn't hear anything about a lower minimum wage for their kitchen staff when their servers were being forced to share their tips with the kitchen, though.
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Re: Gratuities in Kelowna - Can anyone explain?

Postby Always Sunny » Dec 10th, 2012, 4:32 pm

10-15 people don't share your opinion
When I was a server any gratuities that were earned were pooled and assigned as a $$$ amount per hour worked. Depending on the work, functions, hours, seniority, etc. that end wage could vary. That entire income (gratuities built in) was taxed just as it would be in any other profession. My earnings would coincide with the work that I did, all while contributing to my share of the pot.

That's my story.
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Re: Gratuities in Kelowna - Can anyone explain?

Postby Roadster » Dec 10th, 2012, 4:33 pm

Ten/ten GF,,,
I have said all the same things over and over and thats exactly how I feel so I hope I am not bunched in with those 10 to 15 either.
Will tip for great service
Tips should not be taxed but are.
Owners subsidizing with tips is wrong,,,,,,,
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Re: Gratuities in Kelowna - Can anyone explain?

Postby crookedmember » Dec 10th, 2012, 5:16 pm

Here's an idea: how about the servers give the diners some money back if the service is sub-par? Shouldn't this tipping charade work both ways?
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Re: Gratuities in Kelowna - Can anyone explain?

Postby Roadster » Dec 10th, 2012, 5:26 pm

crookedmember wrote:Here's an idea: how about the servers give the diners some money back if the service is sub-par? Shouldn't this tipping charade work both ways?

:dyinglaughing:
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Re: Gratuities in Kelowna - Can anyone explain?

Postby MAPearce » Dec 10th, 2012, 5:47 pm

I still tip...LARGE.

I get the service I expect from the minute I walk in the door.

After all , I can't "do " what I want to do without my servers.

What many in this town forget is that if you offer a tip first , the serving staff get to know you and what you expect.Beside a few sub standard meals ,which were quickly sent back , I have never had any problems in a regular "haunt" of mine ...

Try it one day and then go back...You'll find the service exemplary.

And you'll make a few friends along your way .
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