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Crossroads Closing

Kelowna and Joe Rich topics.

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Re: Crossroads Closing

Postby joer2012 » Jan 10th, 2013, 12:55 pm

Do the liberal crowd in this debate think it is "easy" to stay clean, stay focused, work hard, be reliable and dedicated. Look after oneself and others? Keep on the straight line?

Nope. It's hard.

So maybe the lack of sympathy from some people is understandable to some extent.

I am personally, very tired of hearing about losers, welfare bums, the Okanagan EI crowd and their part time bummed out drug and booze fest and the Big White E.I. Ski Team. Pathetic. The coke crowd and all the doped out losers who can't get off their couch to do a days work.

I worked with a grown man who claimed to have ADD. He was an unreliable mess of a man who used every excuse under the sun for his bizarre disorganized self. Oh yeah, it was undiagnosed unproven ADD. Just another delusional crutch.

He was a walking insult to every kid with ADD and every adult with ADHD seeking help. And yes I know these things I speak of and have personally supported a colleague with some serious family issues.

Sympathy? It's there. And I have done my share. But the crocodile tears of these strung out walking losers and bags of excuses....meh.

Harsh, but fair.
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Re: Crossroads Closing

Postby cv23 » Jan 10th, 2013, 12:58 pm

You're either a contributing member of society or an anchor around its neck forcing it down.
Whats so wrong about helping yourself and others by doing what you can, even if that's shovelling a little snow, in order to help lower costs in a facility you are partaking in the services of and relying upon?
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Re: Crossroads Closing

Postby Lady tehMa » Jan 10th, 2013, 1:00 pm

WhatThe wrote:
Crossroads and Phoenix centre in kamloops are run on shoestring budgets because so many think like you do, with no facts just emotional ideological rhetoric.


There seems to be quite a bit of this in this thread on both sides.

What is needed is objective/clinical thinking. Joer2012 offered some good starting points. Find where it went wrong, and explore options for repair. Throwing money at a problem or turning your back on it will not solve anything.
I haven't failed until I quit.
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Re: Crossroads Closing

Postby WhatThe » Jan 10th, 2013, 1:02 pm

Where's the money goin to come from? It's called investing in the future using real science that yields results. But obviously there's so many who just won't educate themselves and understand our bigget social issues.


Instead of sending more and more lawbreakers to prison, judges in Texas and other states are increasingly sentencing them to alternative treatment and rehabilitation programs that have proven more effective — and that cost much less.

For taxpayers, that could mean safer communities and fewer expensive prisons to operate. For criminals, that could mean more effective programs to help them escape drug and other addictions and become law-abiding citizens again.


http://m.statesman.com/news/news/state- ... o-1/nRNRY/
Our problem is that people are obedient all over the world in the face of poverty and starvation, and war, and cruelty. People are obedient while the jails are full of petty thieves, while the grand thieves are running the country. That's our problem.
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Re: Crossroads Closing

Postby mitchbaywatch » Jan 10th, 2013, 1:05 pm

google "break the taboo"
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Re: Crossroads Closing

Postby cv23 » Jan 10th, 2013, 1:12 pm

WhatThe wrote: It's called investing in the future using real science that yields results.

So you expect others (taxpayers) to do all the investing while those actually receiving the benefits (treatment/therapy) aren't expected to make any real investment in their own future?
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Re: Crossroads Closing

Postby joer2012 » Jan 10th, 2013, 1:17 pm

Calculate the shortfall per patient per day. Add a small percentage to help pay off the debt. Say over five years.

Rationalize all other costs and remove non essentials (cable, TV, free coffee, yadda yadda).

Patients or families/carers prepay the user fee in advance upon admittance.

Simple.

This is how the capitalist free market would operate. Why such a hard time thinking this through?

Shakes head....this is why people get pissed off with these money pits.
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Re: Crossroads Closing

Postby theyeti » Jan 10th, 2013, 1:18 pm

i think we need both . at first these ppl r not good for much as they r sick or what have u . bu after a week or 2 they come around . that is when i think the screws need to be tightnd a bit so to speak . having someone clean up for a day is good but we would be better served finding what the root causes of these problems r
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Re: Crossroads Closing

Postby joe smo » Jan 10th, 2013, 2:08 pm

There is certainly much more to this than has been provided by the media, quickly lapping up the spoon fed "news" Check CRA's website on charities as I did and take a look at Crossroad's financial situation. yes they have 1.5 million in debt - but they also have buildings worth 3.5 M. In common terms, they have a mortgage on their house. Is that bad? How many of us can claim to be mortgage free? The debt issue is a distraction from the real problems. And the media bought it hook, line and sinker. Fed it to us, and we lapped it up.

I don't know how IHA's funding formula works, but I would expect a portion is allocated towards capital infastructure costs. It would seem unreasonable that a non-profit society would provide the infrastructure out of its own resources to simply provide services for IHA and have only its operating costs covered.

And costs for these programs are significant - housing, laundry, housekeeping, meals, cooks, dishwashers and medical staff LPN.s, nurses, counsellors and Doctors. Big costs are a complex problem. Does $70 a day seem reasonable. Tried renting a room in kelowna lately?

The next organization to take on this project will still need a housing facility - where will it come from? Someone will need to pay for it.

It may well be that given the tenue of this organization, its employment costs, benefits, etc may have just scaled up too high. Letting Crossroads dissolve and a new organization take over with reduced costs may be the real issue. This happens frequently in the seniors services sector where contractors funded by IHA change hands, everyone is fired and then hired back with lower wages, benefits etc. Not saying this is the case, but there must be some particular reason theat IHA won't support the facility and given the gap between costs and IHA funding revenue, either IHA is underfunding or Crossroads is exceeding the cost parameters when compared to others providing similar services elsewhere in the Province.

All I can say for certain, is that full disclosure is lacking and the media has failed to actually provide the real facts beyond the obvious.

Once you start to think a little harder about this problem, there is certainly more to this story than what has been revealed.
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Re: Crossroads Closing

Postby Rwede » Jan 10th, 2013, 2:29 pm

I am certain IHA knows the benefit to having CR open. I am certain IHA knows what it should cost to run one, and funds accordingly. I am also certain that the cost to productivity formula has, as joe smo suggests, grown to an unsustainable level.
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Re: Crossroads Closing

Postby the truth » Jan 10th, 2013, 3:05 pm

joe smo wrote:There is certainly much more to this than has been provided by the media, quickly lapping up the spoon fed "news" Check CRA's website on charities as I did and take a look at Crossroad's financial situation. yes they have 1.5 million in debt - but they also have buildings worth 3.5 M. In common terms, they have a mortgage on their house. Is that bad? How many of us can claim to be mortgage free? The debt issue is a distraction from the real problems. And the media bought it hook, line and sinker. Fed it to us, and we lapped it up.

I don't know how IHA's funding formula works, but I would expect a portion is allocated towards capital infastructure costs. It would seem unreasonable that a non-profit society would provide the infrastructure out of its own resources to simply provide services for IHA and have only its operating costs covered.

And costs for these programs are significant - housing, laundry, housekeeping, meals, cooks, dishwashers and medical staff LPN.s, nurses, counsellors and Doctors. Big costs are a complex problem. Does $70 a day seem reasonable. Tried renting a room in kelowna lately?

The next organization to take on this project will still need a housing facility - where will it come from? Someone will need to pay for it.

It may well be that given the tenue of this organization, its employment costs, benefits, etc may have just scaled up too high. Letting Crossroads dissolve and a new organization take over with reduced costs may be the real issue. This happens frequently in the seniors services sector where contractors funded by IHA change hands, everyone is fired and then hired back with lower wages, benefits etc. Not saying this is the case, but there must be some particular reason theat IHA won't support the facility and given the gap between costs and IHA funding revenue, either IHA is underfunding or Crossroads is exceeding the cost parameters when compared to others providing similar services elsewhere in the Province.

All I can say for certain, is that full disclosure is lacking and the media has failed to actually provide the real facts beyond the obvious.

Once you start to think a little harder about this problem, there is certainly more to this story than what has been revealed.


i heard the reson they went public with this is to try to get more money per bed,per day nothing more
and they will not be closing down
time will tell soon enough
i will always speak the truth
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Re: Crossroads Closing

Postby WhatThe » Jan 10th, 2013, 3:21 pm

Look, it's as simple as this. Substance abuse and mental health are at the bottom of the heap in term s of non biased funding. You can think you have the answer without ever having had dealt with them, spoken with those employed there or you can listen to those that have dealt wih the system for over twenty years. You simply don know the constraints placed on those with mental health because of the disgusting attitudes of those that are just ignorant of the ment healh b
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Re: Crossroads Closing

Postby cv23 » Jan 10th, 2013, 4:11 pm

WhatThe wrote:Look, it's as simple as this. Substance abuse and mental health are at the bottom of the heap in term s of non biased funding. You can think you have the answer without ever having had dealt with them, spoken with those employed there or you can listen to those that have dealt wih the system for over twenty years. You simply don know the constraints placed on those with mental health because of the disgusting attitudes of those that are just ignorant of the ment healh b

So please tell us YOUR qualifications as the one who obviously knows so much on the subject.
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Re: Crossroads Closing

Postby joer2012 » Jan 10th, 2013, 4:17 pm

Maybe it's done. Maybe research also exists that proves pouring endlessly more budget into the issue is having no effect.

Ongoing increase in MH incidents, kids now suffering MH issues at alarming rates, substance abuse through the roof.

No end in sight and no meaningful results over the past decades. An incurable illness with increasing incidence and rising costs.

Would you keep pouring money at something that isn't showing a change in the overall direction?

Something is very clearly fundamentally wrong with the human condition.
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Re: Crossroads Closing

Postby theyeti » Jan 11th, 2013, 5:23 pm

i think the problem is society needs to change a bit too. the addicts may be a sign of larger deeper problems .
still think crossroads was a respectable facility and i personally thank any who worked there or gave money or time to keep it open .
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