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Okanagan Wolf Kill

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Re: Okanagan Wolf Kill

Postby Fancy » Jan 14th, 2013, 11:02 am

That head start gave all of these animals and many more species plenty of time to overrun the planet before we got here.
And now we're here and we hunt.
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Re: Okanagan Wolf Kill

Postby mexicalidreamer » Jan 14th, 2013, 11:17 am

Huh?
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Re: Okanagan Wolf Kill

Postby Rwede » Jan 14th, 2013, 11:18 am

Fancy wrote: And now we're here and we hunt.



Correct. Looking back 200,000 years ago and trying to draw some parallel to today's circumstances is a straw man's argument. The world is evolving daily, and those who don't evolve with it face extinction.
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Re: Okanagan Wolf Kill

Postby wcasako » Jan 14th, 2013, 11:20 am

mexicalidreamer wrote:Just a quick check of the "facts" surrounding mans need to be part of the process but us "superior" species have been around about 200,000 years or so and white tailed deer about 3-4 million years. Wolves about 1.6 million years. Moose have been around for more than 500,000 years.

Let's have an actuary jump in here and tell us how many wolves should have been around by the time we sprung out of whatever quagmire we crawled out of based on the "fact" that wolves are prolific breeders.

Surely there would have been gazillions of them and given that moose didn't show up until about a million years later, how did they get a foot hold at all what with all those "hunt for sport" furry blood thirsty canines running the show.

That head start gave all of these animals and many more species plenty of time to overrun the planet before we got here.

It seems to me that nature must have done a pretty good job of controlling the populations of every species up until our arrival without having the benefit of the assistance of the "superior" species because they did not in fact (there's that word again) overrun the planet.

But now because we have encroached on their natural homes and we see the potential for unwanted interaction; interaction which they do not welcome, we see ourselves as being a necessary part of the eco balance and give ourselves permission to kill whatever species in whatever numbers we deem to be reasonable because we are afraid of them?

We give ourselves more rights than we give them. And this rock is as much theirs as it has ever been ours.

In general, the human species arrogance is responsible for ALL of the problems on our planet but while most reasonable people would acknowledge this, we aren't smart enough to say enough is enough, lets try something different.

We may as the "superior" species have control of this planet since we came upon the scene and learned how to make axes out of rock and spearheads out of obsidian and fire out of, well, fire but really, how well is it working out so far?


Your comments have been addressed in previous posts.
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Re: Okanagan Wolf Kill

Postby janalta » Jan 14th, 2013, 11:24 am

And yet..with all of the concern from the hunters about caribou populations near the brink of destruction.....
http://www.lehmancreek.ca/caribou-hunt.html
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Re: Okanagan Wolf Kill

Postby Fancy » Jan 14th, 2013, 11:36 am

One herd? And the location the same as what was discussed?
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Re: Okanagan Wolf Kill

Postby wcasako » Jan 14th, 2013, 11:38 am

janalta wrote:And yet..with all of the concern from the hunters about caribou populations near the brink of destruction.....
http://www.lehmancreek.ca/caribou-hunt.html


The hunt for Mountain Caribou in the area this outfitter has is sustainable and has been hunted sustainably from the early 1900s (I can find a specific date if you feel it is important). Hunters are managed in the region where this hunt occurs and so are wolves. As an FYI - the address is Summerland, but do you know where they hunt Mountain Caribou? I have been there a number of times to observe these animals. Beautiful bull on their www page by the way - thanks!

I am trying to guess if you are implying hunting is a risk to the long term viability of this population?
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Re: Okanagan Wolf Kill

Postby Fancy » Jan 14th, 2013, 11:44 am

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Re: Okanagan Wolf Kill

Postby janalta » Jan 14th, 2013, 11:47 am

wcasako wrote:
The hunt for Mountain Caribou in the area this outfitter has is sustainable and has been hunted sustainably from the early 1900s (I can find a specific date if you feel it is important). Hunters are managed in the region where this hunt occurs and so are wolves. As an FYI - the address is Summerland, but do you know where they hunt Mountain Caribou? I have been there a number of times to observe these animals. Beautiful bull on their www page by the way - thanks!

I am trying to guess if you are implying hunting is a risk to the long term viability of this population?


Nothing more beautiful than a dead animal.

Yes, they hunt up past Williams Lake...I can read, thanks though.

You are all implying that not hunting wolves in the Okanagan will doom the caribou in another zone...potato/potatoe.

I have asked many times now to provide your proof that the population of wolves in the Okanagan is directly affecting the caribou population....no one seems to be answering. No proof either that their numbers are effecting any populations of local deer, moose or sheep either.
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Re: Okanagan Wolf Kill

Postby Fancy » Jan 14th, 2013, 11:49 am

janalta wrote:You are all implying that not hunting wolves in the Okanagan will doom the caribou in another zone...potato/potatoe.

Not true.
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Re: Okanagan Wolf Kill

Postby Fancy » Jan 14th, 2013, 11:50 am

mexicalidreamer wrote: Hunters will always find ways to justify themselves and their actions.
Culling is killing for no apparent good reason other than those fabricated by hunters who are self serving.

I don't have to justify myself at all and your second comment is inaccurate.
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Re: Okanagan Wolf Kill

Postby mexicalidreamer » Jan 14th, 2013, 11:54 am

Not in my opinion. Your ideals and mine will differ for all eternity. And as far as having to justify yourself; couldn't agree more but that in fact is what we all do when we put forth reasons for why we do what we do. I am attempting to justify my own platform with my posts. I believe as strongly as you do, just not in the same things.
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Re: Okanagan Wolf Kill

Postby Fancy » Jan 14th, 2013, 11:56 am

You aren't saying anything to back up your opinion . Read up on the Wedge pack.
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Re: Okanagan Wolf Kill

Postby janalta » Jan 14th, 2013, 11:58 am

Fancy wrote:Not true.


Are you reading the same thread as I am ??? :137:
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Re: Okanagan Wolf Kill

Postby mexicalidreamer » Jan 14th, 2013, 12:01 pm

My opinion is simple; If anybody, any group wants to do whatever it is that they want to do, they will create a framework of justification and call it whatever makes the deed less unsavory. That is how I feel about culls.

And as for backing up my opinion, I could argue that the cull itself is backup enough but you likely won't see it that way so then I am lost as to how I could possibly sway you.
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