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Crossroads Closing

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Re: Crossroads Closing

Postby cv23 » Jan 16th, 2013, 7:04 pm

-fluffy- wrote:I still maintain that the cost of not treating these people is greater than the cost of treating them. Many who attend these centers do so as a last resort, having lost just about everything, socially, financially and emotionally. Why not give them a leg up on a second chance at life? Our system certainly does a lot more for people whose need is not as great.

I don't have the figures to be able to calculate the savings of treating or not but IH , who are supplying the funding, have come up with a price per day per bed that they are willing to provide but Crossroads says they need more. Society/taxpayers/government/IH are not denying but in fact are offering, The problem is obvious that the cost to supply treatment exceeds the funds available so additional funds must be found to keep the facility open. For IH to provide more funds they themselves must receive more funds or they must cut services elsewhere. Same old story we're hearing far to often, tax increases or service cuts.
You say that the system does more for those less in need. Could you provide some examples?
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Re: Crossroads Closing

Postby theyeti » Jan 16th, 2013, 8:15 pm

yep i got lots of examples . rich areas tend to have better schools and hospitals . ppl with lots of money demand better service .
even tho these r government services the rich poor divide still seems to be there . this is the same . its a facility needed by those that have little means to pay for it . i however do agree that if 40 a day per bed is the difference needed let the recovering addict who is benefitting from treatment pay the 40 a day if thats all it is . thats still a pretty good deal government picks up 2 thirds or better of the bill for a guy to get some help .

now at the same time if that number could be reduced or eliminated thru simple cost cutting measures and improved methods . well i like the sound of that as well .

i know when u sign someone in to crossroads they look at the persons needs . they ask questions like does this person have money .
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Re: Crossroads Closing

Postby fluffy » Jan 16th, 2013, 9:08 pm

cv23 wrote: You say that the system does more for those less in need. Could you provide some examples?


Are you aware of anyone collecting EI or welfare that is not actively seeking employment even though they are completely employable?

There are always places within the system to trim some fat so to speak. There may even be opportunities at Crossroads itself to review staffing levels and workloads. Somebody pounding the bricks to drum up some corporate sponsorship could be a benefit too, this would be an ideal place for volunteers to lend a hand. I don't think the money is a huge a barrier as some would have us believe, the money could be found if the the intent to keep the facility open is genuine.
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Re: Crossroads Closing

Postby Queen K » Jan 17th, 2013, 10:37 pm

*try again without the personal attacks/Jo*
Please stop bragging on facebook about how great the Okanagan is right now, or they'll want to move here.
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Re: Crossroads Closing

Postby cutter7 » Jan 18th, 2013, 5:04 am

They say some people have to hit rock bottom before they will accept or ask for help.

We know that crack heads steal repeatedly to support their habits.

It goes without saying that helping people who want it will reduce crime.

Crossroads provides that help and I believe plays an important role in reducing property crime and helping people become contributing members of society.
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Re: Crossroads Closing

Postby normaM » Jan 18th, 2013, 7:47 am

I can't read tho this all - does anyone have info re Crossroads success rate?
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Re: Crossroads Closing

Postby theyeti » Jan 18th, 2013, 8:36 am

i dont have any numbers but of the 4 or 5 ppl i know who went there none of em panned out . most ended up going elsewhere after and some that still did not work . however crossroads tried to help these ppl .

it is not what crossroads does or does not do . it is the attitudes of the ppl that r there to be helped .
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Re: Crossroads Closing

Postby fluffy » Jan 18th, 2013, 9:48 am

normaM wrote:I can't read tho this all - does anyone have info re Crossroads success rate?


That's a tough question, I couldn't find anything specific to Crossroads but found an interesting article from a center down at the coast. It explains some of the variables and problems in measuring success rates but gives a short answer of 70%. From my experience this sounds a little optimistic, I'd tend towards something in the neighbourhood of 50% but again, what I see in AA doesn't necessarily apply to treatment centers. A huge determining factor in potential for success is how vested the "patient" is in their own recovery. If they are there for themselves chances of success are many times greater than if they are there at someone else's insistence, for example family or the court system. It occurs to me that the patients at Crossroads, which supplies government funded treatment as opposed to the higher end, user pay, "spa" type centers are typically lower bottom cases, but I have a hard time relating patient history to chances of success because again, it really depends on how much the patient wants to recover.
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Re: Crossroads Closing

Postby normaM » Jan 18th, 2013, 10:02 am

oh, I worked at AADAC in Alberta so I'm aware of all the info, blah blah .. I was wondering spec about CR rate of success, not other treatment centres or programs. I've heard things about the place but wanted to see if numbers existed.
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Re: Crossroads Closing

Postby fluffy » Jan 18th, 2013, 10:13 am

I rather doubt there would be any reliable numbers for Crossroads specifically, the "marginalized" end of society is pretty hard to track.
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Re: Crossroads Closing

Postby cv23 » Jan 18th, 2013, 12:41 pm

Now I'm getting confused.
People here are screaming that Crossroads is essential and even suggest that others should lose their jobs or take wage cuts, because their positions are a waste of much needed funds, in order to provide even more funding to a facility whose success rate is in doubt even by some of it's strongest supporters??? Does this mean we not getting good value for the public funds invested in Crossroads? Does this mean that others should suffer so that "essential" funds are spent upon a facility providing at best questionable results?

The success rate of other user pay type facilities is being somewhat lauded because those patients have more of a vested interest in their recovery so why wouldn't Crossroads and IH take notice of how more successful programs/facilities operate and see that some sort of a user pay, or payback, program is instituted so the patients at Crossroads are making more of an investment in their own future? No one seems to have an issue with the student loans program where the government makes an investment in someones future but expects the individual to repay a portion of the funds invested in their personal betterment after the process is complete and they are gainfully employed.
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Re: Crossroads Closing

Postby normaM » Jan 18th, 2013, 1:50 pm

Fluffy - of course they have to keep some sort of records, and since I know one professional who was there it isn't just for the marginalized
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Re: Crossroads Closing

Postby fluffy » Jan 18th, 2013, 2:31 pm

cv23 wrote:The success rate of other user pay type facilities is being somewhat lauded because those patients have more of a vested interest in their recovery so why wouldn't Crossroads and IH take notice of how more successful programs/facilities operate and see that some sort of a user pay, or payback, program is instituted so the patients at Crossroads are making more of an investment in their own future? No one seems to have an issue with the student loans program where the government makes an investment in someones future but expects the individual to repay a portion of the funds invested in their personal betterment after the process is complete and they are gainfully employed.


Yes, you are confused. :127: I didn't say that the user pay type facilities enjoy a greater success rate than those more similar to Crossroads, when I said that success depends a lot on the degree to which they are vested in their own recovery I was not speaking in monetary terms, I was referring more to the degree of emotional commitment to recovery. Claims to huge success rates (80 - 90%) made by any facility are suspect at best, research into addiction treatment just hasn't progressed that far yet.

CV23, a lot of your dismay stems from the way you perceive addiction and it treatment. If you look at it as a medical problem then the idea of supplying addiction treatment in much the same way we would supply mainstream medical care begins to make sense.
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Re: Crossroads Closing

Postby fluffy » Jan 18th, 2013, 2:35 pm

normaM wrote:Fluffy - of course they have to keep some sort of records, and since I know one professional who was there it isn't just for the marginalized


Not all marginalized normaM, but a big percentage for sure, as those who cannot afford the high end spa facilities have little choice. Records on success rates would depend on staying in contact with patients a year or more after their release, which can be a crap shoot at best for many of those completing the program. I can speak only to some cases, where members of my AA home group who began their sobriety with treatment are currently enjoying lengthy terms of recovery.
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