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Can My Landlord Charge For That?

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Re: Can My Landlord Charge For That?

Postby 36Drew » Feb 4th, 2013, 4:33 pm

sammym wrote:Your earlier post was quite sure that if it is not in the agreement, that it is not enforceable. That is wrong. I have posted the actual rules as well as a link so I'm not going to argue with you. I am an ex tenancy officer and will leave it at that.


You haven't. You've posted a link to an information pamphlet as listed by the RTB. The *RULES* are the Residential Tenancy Act. Here it is: http://www.bclaws.ca/EPLibraries/bclaws_new/document/ID/freeside/00_02078_01

There are some items that can be added to a rental agreement (ie., carpet cleaning) that can be over and above the minimum standard of the act. Absent those additions, the minimum standard of the law applies. I dare you to find a statement in the act that states "Tenants must clean the carpets after 12 months".

(Hint: It's not there. You're wrong, Libelle is right.)
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Re: Can My Landlord Charge For That?

Postby 36Drew » Feb 4th, 2013, 6:06 pm

[quote="sammym"I am an ex tenancy officer and will leave it at that.[/quote]

If you were an "ex tenancy officer" then there's would probably be a reason for that. However, i seriously doubt that you are. One, you seem to have little knowledge of the actual law and rely on RTB information sheets rather than the applicable law itself. Second, and probably the most relevant - the RTB doesn't have "tenancy officers".
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Re: Can My Landlord Charge For That?

Postby sammym » Feb 4th, 2013, 9:03 pm

36Drew wrote:If you were an "ex tenancy officer" then there's would probably be a reason for that. However, i seriously doubt that you are. One, you seem to have little knowledge of the actual law and rely on RTB information sheets rather than the applicable law itself. Second, and probably the most relevant - the RTB doesn't have "tenancy officers".


Yes, I posted a link to an information sheet as that is usually the answer to how the decisions are made...therefore an information sheet.

And apparently the RTB does have tenancy officers... :dyinglaughing:

How can the Residential Tenancy Branch help resolve the dispute?

If attempts to resolve the dispute between the landlord and tenant are unsuccessful, either person may request that a Residential Tenancy Branch Information Officer contact the other party to provide information about the rights, responsibilities and options under residential tenancy law.


http://www.rto.gov.bc.ca/content/resolv ... t.aspx#213

And lastly, nice try to make yourself look like you are superior by feebly attacking why I am an EX officer. I left for advancement reasons, which I don't really have to justify, but I will just for you!!!
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Re: Can My Landlord Charge For That?

Postby jigsalot » Feb 4th, 2013, 9:07 pm

We did a walk through and she had no complaints about the condition we had left it in...how could she...we left it in pristine condition which wasn't the condition of the house when we took occupancy...black mold in the bathroom and window tracks, cobwebs, general grimy condition (documented in photos). Although, we gave her ample opportunity to do the Inspection Report, she did not do one and now blames us for not giving her opportunity...I have emails to prove we tried to get the inspection report done.

I hope she is not representative of the landlords out there. This was our first experience in renting after being homeowners for the past 35+ years...just wanted a no hassle, short term rental while our house was being built...sounded good at the time but...Holy Moses...this has turned out to be anything but hassle free. She now wants to charge us for water (flat rate) which was included in the signed agreement. What a headache. What's next?
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Re: Can My Landlord Charge For That?

Postby Libelle » Feb 4th, 2013, 9:41 pm

Regardless of your position with the RTB sammym, you were incorrect with your information in regards to the carpet cleaning.
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Re: Can My Landlord Charge For That?

Postby 36Drew » Feb 4th, 2013, 11:06 pm

sammym wrote:Yes, I posted a link to an information sheet as that is usually the answer to how the decisions are made...therefore an information sheet.


Yet you quote those information sheets as though they are the definitive law. They're not.


sammym wrote:And apparently the RTB does have tenancy officers... :dyinglaughing:


An "information officer" is a fancy term for the person who answers the phone and gives out information. They typically know the least. you said you were a Tenancy Officer (no such position exists), seemingly to put yourself on part with an arbitrator. They know far more than the office pool ever will.

sammym wrote:And lastly, nice try to make yourself look like you are superior by feebly attacking why I am an EX officer. I left for advancement reasons, which I don't really have to justify, but I will just for you!!!


Thanks for sharing.


As Libelle has already pointed out - regardless of your tenure (whatever position you think you've held) - you are flat out wrong in your advisement.
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Re: Can My Landlord Charge For That?

Postby jigsalot » Feb 15th, 2013, 10:05 am

I met with my landlady yesterday and she returned my deposits in full. However, she did not pay her half of the 4 months of BC Hydro which was agreed to in our signed RTA. She presented me with a bill for $160.00 for carpet cleaning although I steam cleaned the carpets January 6, 2013 after vacating the premises December 28, 2012. I took pictures of the carpet after cleaning because she has been extremely difficult throughout our tenancy and I expected issues. She also presented me with a bill for $175.00 for minor repairs to her house for conditions which existed (some of which we discussed with her) before we began our tenancy. She also wants me to pay 1/2 the water bill which was included in our rent according to the RTA.

I met with her September 24, 2012 for 2 1/4 hours...a time she had set up for doing the Condition Inspection Report. We spent the afternoon in the rental and she did not mention the inspection...she wanted to re-negotiate the terms of the rental agreement which I did not agree to. I reminded her by email October 2, 2012 that we would need to get it done before she left for Ottawa for the winter (mid-October)...she didn't respond...by that time, she had already locked us out of the kennel yard which was also included for our use in the RTA. I reminded her, at least once more, that we needed to do the report...no response.

She asked us to sign a receipt for the return of the deposit yesterday which we did...stupidly...without reading it. Once we had our deposit, I just wanted to get away from her. She has been contentious, demanding and deceitful throughout our tenancy so I can't believe I didn't read it (stupid,stupid, stupid)and now am wondering if I signed something saying I'd pay for the stuff she is billing me for. I don't know...having come to know her ways...I'm suspicious. I've asked her to email me a copy...doubt that she will so I'll stop by her place tomorrow and ask in person. I've contacted the RTB...but I wonder...am I down the creek without a paddle if I unknowingly signed an agreement to pay? Obviously, she is not going to pay for her share of BC Hydro unless I pay her bills.
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Re: Can My Landlord Charge For That?

Postby kgcayenne » Feb 15th, 2013, 10:22 am

Don’t talk to this woman any more. If she contacts you regarding the bills that were actually included in the tenancy agreement, send her a letter (by mail, not e-mail) outlining the terms of the original agreement, including a photocopy with the appropriate sections highlighted. Conclude that letter telling her you no longer wish for her to contact you, and that you will only accept correspondence from a representative of the Residential Tenancy Branch.

In the future, request a copy of anything you sign prior to actually signing, and then retain it.
"without knowledge, he multiplies mere words."
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Re: Can My Landlord Charge For That?

Postby 36Drew » Feb 15th, 2013, 10:38 am

jigsalot wrote:I've contacted the RTB...but I wonder...am I down the creek without a paddle if I unknowingly signed an agreement to pay? Obviously, she is not going to pay for her share of BC Hydro unless I pay her bills.


The RTA requires that your landlord meet one of three conditions within 15 days of your tenancy ending. They either need to return your deposit in full, receive your agreement to withhold a portion of your deposit, or apply to the RTB for permission to withhold part or all of your deposit. Failure to comply is subject to a statutory award of double your deposit back.

A relatively new requirement is signed and completed inspection reports. Tenancies commencing after 2002 require a pre-tenancy inspection report, and all tenancy terminations now require a move-out inspection report. If the tenant refuses, they lose the right to receive their damage deposit back. If the landlord refuses, they lose any claim to the damage deposit.

(Link to law for reference)

As for the carpet cleaning - unless you've agreed to carpet cleaning in your lease, normal wear and tear is not considered "damage". If you're really bored, there's plenty of case history and decisions from both the RTB as well as in Canlii to show exactly how the courts feel about this. (Hint, if you live in a place for 20 years and the 20 or 30-year-old carpet is thin and worn, that's still reasonable wear and tear. Carpet doesn't last forever).

I would think that if you've signed off, you've potentially boned yourself. You should never ever never ever never ever sign anything without reading it first. That said, there's absolutely no harm in you speaking with the RTB and telling them she didn't have your permission but rather you signed under duress so that you could at least get some of your money back. It sounds as if she's taken more than 15 days to deal with this, and has done so with such gross negligence that you may have had a reason to unwittingly agree to illicit terms to receive some of your money.

You might send your ex-landlord a letter (email or post) suggesting that you will be following up with the RTB. Point out to her the requirements for actually hanging on to a damage deposit. Point out the sections of the RTA that show that she has no claim to the damage deposit, and that if she doesn't return what's owed to you, that you will be filing with the RTB and she will be forced to pay back not only what she owes you but double-damages as well. That alone might just convince her to play nice.
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Re: Can My Landlord Charge For That?

Postby jigsalot » Feb 15th, 2013, 10:49 am

It looks like she's done an end run on the RTB by not withholding from my deposit...presenting me with a separate bill after returning my deposit. She was within the 14 days. We moved out December 28, 2012 but our rental agreement went to January 31, 2013 which we paid for.
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Re: Can My Landlord Charge For That?

Postby Libelle » Feb 15th, 2013, 12:21 pm

Did you get a copy of the reciept right after you signed it? If not then you can dispute the legitimacy of the reciept as she held the reciept in her possession (and still does) that was signed by you giving her a chance to alter the signed reciept. A reciept is given after (right after) a transaction is complete. What business makes you wait for your reciept after you paid or received services? Just the sketchy ones. Did you state in your email that the reciept that you speak of was ONLY in regard to the full damage deposit being returned? Do not tell her that you did not read the receipt over before signing, and since you have not got a copy of said reciept you just wanted that to be clear to all parties that the reciept was for the return of the damage deposit only, nothing more. Send off one last Emil stating this Be right to the point and where and how she can deliver the reciept which indicates the return of the damage deposit only. It would be interesting to see the receipt to see if it mentioned the return of the deposit as well as a bill for hydro etc. That would be interesting listening to her trying to explain why she presented you with a bill/reciept combo to sign to the arbitrator. Besides why would you or anyone would agree to pay for something that is already included in their rent? You were just signing off on the return of your DD nothing more. Do not stress, to make a claim for all or part of your DD the landlord must do so within 15 days of the tenancy ending. Depending on when your tenancy ended to the time you got your DD back you could file for double of your DD since your landlord did not adhere to section 36 (a)(b) of the RTA.
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Re: Can My Landlord Charge For That?

Postby 36Drew » Feb 15th, 2013, 12:35 pm

jigsalot wrote:It looks like she's done an end run on the RTB by not withholding from my deposit...presenting me with a separate bill after returning my deposit. She was within the 14 days. We moved out December 28, 2012 but our rental agreement went to January 31, 2013 which we paid for.



Did she pay you back your entire deposit, and then present a bill? Hopefully you haven't paid her any money in the absence of an applicable RTB order...
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Re: Can My Landlord Charge For That?

Postby Libelle » Feb 15th, 2013, 12:48 pm

Off topic, but I do not understand why a renter/landlord can not have access to past RTB decisions and or orders made against or for either party. But yet you can access their (if any) traffic, criminal or civil court records but orders/decisions made against or for them by the RTB is kept under strict lock and key. But then again the RTA plays by a totally different set of rules that can and do vary depending on how the arbitrator is feeling on any given day.
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Re: Can My Landlord Charge For That?

Postby 36Drew » Feb 15th, 2013, 1:08 pm

Libelle wrote:Off topic, but I do not understand why a renter/landlord can not have access to past RTB decisions and or orders made against or for either party. But yet you can access their (if any) traffic, criminal or civil court records but orders/decisions made against or for them by the RTB is kept under strict lock and key. But then again the RTA plays by a totally different set of rules that can and do vary depending on how the arbitrator is feeling on any given day.



There is a searchable decision database: http://www.housing.gov.bc.ca/rtb/search.html
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Re: Can My Landlord Charge For That?

Postby Libelle » Feb 15th, 2013, 1:33 pm

Thank you Drew, but I have know about the decsions link for some time. It was launched to provide the public transparency into decisions being made. A an example the Supreme court of BC publishes judicial review of an arbitrators decision with the names of all parties involved, but again this info is top secret in the RTB underworld. And when the rules of evidence do not apply as well any setting of precedents by other decisions of a RTB arbitrator. This leaves both parties at the whim of the arbitrator which leads to inconsistent decisions/orders being made. To have a decision and order squashed or put back to the arbitrator one has to access the Supreme Court of BC after all avenues of the act are extinguish.
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