The Westcorp hotel....

[alanjh595]

So if they can make a bridge of that size float, why can't they apply the same principles from lessons learned to floating a structure such as a hotel on the same principles?

[johnny24]

It may not collapse, but it is being built on unstable ground. Ever wonder why we have a floating bridge? This whole area, close to and including the lake bottom, has no real bedrock. Those sandy beaches occur naturally.

Wonderful info. So you're agreeing with me?

[Grandan]

It may not collapse, but it is being built on unstable ground. Ever wonder why we have a floating bridge? This whole area, close to and including the lake bottom, has no real bedrock. Those sandy beaches occur naturally.

There are numerous ways to support a building on land which has limited bearing capacity.
The Grand was built on a raft slab which was stated to be 8ft thick. If a structure as massive as the bridge would float, why not a building?
Other towers are built on pilings driven into the ground until they meet sufficient resistance. Such pilings may be tens or more feet deep into the underlying soils.
To suggest that a structural engineer would sign off on a building that would sink unpredictably into the mire is just plain wrong.

[Brerrabbit18]

Think it's time for me to start my own Construction Contracting business.
I'll just tell City council I want to build a 20 story building to get the ball rolling and by the time it comes to construction, I'll just put in a variance to 100 stories.
They'll approve it! They always do.

[Omnitheo]

It is a floating bridge due to the uneven nature of the lakebed. This new bridge, like the one before, still has sections which are not floating, and have pylons built into the bedrock.

Here is a map of the geology of the Okanagan.
http://ftp.maps.canada.ca/pub/nrcan_rnc ... 9_mn01.pdf

While yes, much of Kelowna is built on alluvial fan, there is still underlying bedrock. this is no different from most large cities built alongside rivers. Additionally, there is no distinction between the geology of the lakefront vs the rest of the city or Rutland. The same considerations would need to be taken.

[entertained]

is the fire department equipped to fight a fire on the 30th floor...what's that going to cost the taxpayers for all new equipment. Maybe westcorp should flip the bill...or better yet the city counselors that voted yes. The next mayor is going to have one heck of a mess to clean up...I sure hope it's not him again. I know it's hard to say no to your buds but you might have to one day...for the sake of Kelowna.

*removed* The professionals in the fire department have already commented.

*removed*.

no I wasn't aware landm. It sounds like you know a lot about it...I will still wonder about it though. If you are aware of it, tell me what they said. Are they equipped to fight a fire on the top floor?

[WalterWhite]

This is going off-track. It's not about whether it can or will be constructed properly - I have no concern with that. The area presents some difficult issues with regard to bearing soils, but the methods to build on these soils have been around for decades and have been used here numerous times already. It's not about whether we should or should not see tower construction in the downtown core - I'm all for it having seen years of this area's urban sprawl now approaching the saturation point, and will openly state I think some of the existing, as well as future tower developments here are fantastic. Yes, the days of quaint little old rural Kelowna that rolled up the streets and turned off the street lights after the tourists evaporated after the Labor Day long weekend are just that - a thing of the past, and have no issue with the fact this town has become a destination city not just in Canada, but comparatively for much of North America.

It is however, about a very inexperienced mayor and fellow council members thinking they know more or what's better for the short and long term growth and development of our city, than the very civic staff and experts who have been and are employed with years of experience and understanding of what's involved, all while attempting to adhere within reason to guidelines set out for just such a purpose in an official community plan. It's about managing growth and development, it's about massing and long term effects of planning that has been consulted and studied and reported on here for years. I'm frankly *bleep* off that this mayor and several council members are letting their egos screw the residents that put their *bleep* in those seats to manage and maintain the proper growth and development of this city with inexperienced decisions that will result in current problems becoming even worse than they already are. Why, if our so-called Mayor and Councillors are able and competent enough (albeit in their own minds) to make these decisions themselves void of any solid and valuable direction - do we even have a city planning and development department at all??

Basran's got balls, and an ego to match - I'll give him that. But he's no planning and development expert - far from it - and the fact he and some on council can show such contempt and disregard for sound expert advice and direction from those whose job it is to provide it is simply appalling.

The next civic election can't come fast enough.

[WalterWhite]

I decided it wasn't proper to add a pic to a comment after others have "Liked" it, so I'll post this here:

Eta: if the above is too much verbiage for some - I ask you consider this strikingly similar visual comparison of mayoral intellect:

[dle]

Im going to add yet another "hot potato"into the fold. Developers once again ruled in crushing any chance of an affordable bypass within this city. Central Green golf course property, correct me if I got the name incorrect. Currently houses Home Depot, Walmart, and many other businesses. This was the only land feasable and affordable for a bypass. Consider the costs today and where would it go? Overpasses and underpasses, I just don't see it happening, and tax dollars to pay for it? The higher taxes will definitely drive people out of Kelowna similar to Vancouver citizens exit.
The greed of local businesses, council and mayor, fumbling the ball once again.
Hindsight, being what it is, CN sold their property right behind this
property which would of lent well to future widening and additional lane traffic. In its place we now have an additional Greenway access, so much more needed, sarcastically said.
Lets face it people, the elected councils of past, present, and sad to say, future, likely will continue the greed and arrogance of self indulgence.
The Westcorp fiasco proposal is yet further evidence of the direction this city is headed.
Planners on city staff have a Technical education and that education is taught, based mainly on history and qualified studies. How can these council members over rule them with
"No Formal" education to qualfy them.
I just hope with professional engineers and proper preloading for construction purposes, this doesnt end in a world class catastrophy costing 100's of innocent lives if this collapses. We are experiencing weather changes and flooding causing extreme high water tables.
I really enjoy the casual cruise down Hwy.97 in summer stopping every 30' and then just to hit a red light. If riding a motorcycle or peddle bike the exhaust fumes can give you a headache. And Kelowna council and Mayor want more people to ride bikes to work, booyah.
Lets sit back and enjoy the ride (sarcasm) folks because its a ride you wont want to miss and likely want to forget.

Nailed it. Great post!

[cuba108]

The good news is Westcorp has no money and can only finance this with condo presales. With the new foreign buyers tax and the extra fee for those not paying income tax in the Province this will be tough. Count on a hole in the ground at the site for a few years until they are able to flip it to someone with the bucks to proceed.Westcorp has had their financing turned down by all the major banks and lending institutions , just another proposal like the Monaco etc.

[lesliepaul]

The good news is Westcorp has no money and can only finance this with condo presales. With the new foreign buyers tax and the extra fee for those not paying income tax in the Province this will be tough. Count on a hole in the ground at the site for a few years until they are able to flip it to someone with the bucks to proceed.Westcorp has had their financing turned down by all the major banks and lending institutions , just another proposal like the Monaco etc.

Money IS a BIG issue with Westcorp...........as mentioned above, they have none. BUT, they will be able to flip the land down the road for a profit. I believe that is and was their intention all along. How much of a profit is to be seen. For now and many more years, that land will remain in limbo in its present condition........along with so many other S#%T hole locations that are eyesores on this city. This city council is too G%D D@#N stupid to do anything that does not line their "donation supporters" pockets first and they continue to insult all of us over and over again. This council and mayor are cancer and to have a chance to cure it you have to remove ALL OF IT..........sorry Charlie but a complete eradication is due.

[SteWe]

The good news is Westcorp has no money and can only finance this with condo presales. With the new foreign buyers tax and the extra fee for those not paying income tax in the Province this will be tough. Count on a hole in the ground at the site for a few years until they are able to flip it to someone with the bucks to proceed.Westcorp has had their financing turned down by all the major banks and lending institutions , just another proposal like the Monaco etc.

Money IS a BIG issue with Westcorp...........as mentioned above, they have none. BUT, they will be able to flip the land down the road for a profit. I believe that is and was their intention all along. How much of a profit is to be seen. For now and many more years, that land will remain in limbo in its present condition........along with so many other S#%T hole locations that are eyesores on this city. This city council is to G%D D@#N stupid to do anything that does not line their "donation supporters" pockets first and they continue to insult all of us over and over again. This council and mayor are cancer and to have a chance to cure it you have to remove ALL OF IT..........sorry Charlie but a complete eradication is due.

any chance either of you can point to Westcorp's money issues? Thanks in advance.

[zerograv]

Lol westcorp is a very large developer with extremely deep pockets....all this B.S. about money troubles is unfounded and slanderous. They wouldn't spend millions for world renound architects to design the building if they were just planning on selling the land.

I get it you don't approve of the building, but to pull a bunch of B.S. out your cornhole is silly.

These are luxury condos on the waterfront in one of the fastest growing regions in Canada, if you don't think they will sell then you should just leave because you have no idea what you are talking about Don't be shocked when you see this building sell out in one day.

[lesliepaul]

Lol westcorp is a very large developer with extremely deep pockets....all this B.S. about money troubles is unfounded and slanderous. They wouldn't spend millions for world renound architects to design the building if they were just planning on selling the land.

I get it you don't approve of the building, but to pull a bunch of B.S. out your cornhole is silly.

These are luxury condos on the waterfront in one of the fastest growing regions in Canada, if you don't think they will sell then you should just leave because you have no idea what you are talking about Don't be shocked when you see this building sell out in one day.

Borrowing lots of others money or relying on "pre-sales" does not qualify as "deep pockets". Aquilini's have deep pockets, Jim Pattison has deep pockets...........heck, Al Stober has deep pockets.

Never mentioned I do not approve of the building..........location is my issue and the "coming back to the trough" (City Council) for change after change after change IS A RED FLAG in my books.

[normaM]

Interesting point about the fire department and the 30th floor. Pity re the location and at some point taxpayers going to be on the hook for something to " enhance" the building.