The Westcorp hotel....

Re: The Westcorp hotel....

Postby zerograv » Feb 23rd, 2018, 3:03 pm

fz6adventure wrote:
zerograv wrote:I don't care who, how much and when.....lol do you honestly think there is some kind of conspiracy going on? especially when the information is easily accessed by EVERYONE?

Why not just pay them cash under that table [icon_lol2.gif]



Zerograv, you may not care and I'm okay with that. I'm more of a realist than a conspiracy theorist and typically make sure I have the facts. On these, I can tell you the facts that are undisputed are:

    The last municipal election was held on November 15, 2014
    All candidates are required under law to file disclosure statement itemizing their receipt of campaign contributions.
    All candidates filed their signed disclosure statements with Elections BC
    Milroy, through his companies, contributed $8,000 to mayor and council candidates in the last municipal election.
    Milroy only contributed to 6 members of the current council.
    Mayor Basran's receipt of the $2,000 campaign contribution from Milroy was on November 15, 2014 (time of day uncertain)
    Councillor Sieben received two $500 contributions from Milroy.
    One of Councillor Sieben $500 contributions from Milroy was received 7 days after the election on November 22, 2014
    The only 'for" votes on the motion of the DVP approval came from only those that received campaign contributions from Milroy.
    Councillor DeHart received a $1,000 campaign contribution from Milroy.
    Councillor DeHart recused from voting on the DVP
    The City of Kelowna Planning Department is staffed by professional Planners
    The City of Kelowna Planning Department recommended that Council not approve the DVP.

I can't tell you whether or not those that voted to approve the DVP application receive other compensation from Milroy, either in a a "cash under the table form" or other manner. I don't have that information.

I can't be certain that all citizens know where to look for proof on the matter of campaign contributions - I can, so help out where I can.

It is up to the broad citizen base to determine from the facts if they are concerned whether or not Council voted on the application in good faith and the result was in any way, suspect. I think you know which way I lean.

I hope I've addressed your concern adequately. Thank you for giving me the opportunity


*bleep*? I have no concerns.
Before giving someone a piece of your mind, make sure that you have enough to spare.

fz6adventure likes this post.
zerograv
Generalissimo Postalot
 
Posts: 968
Likes: 70 posts
Liked in: 271 posts
Joined: Mar 5th, 2009, 9:49 pm

Re: The Westcorp hotel....

Postby fz6adventure » Feb 24th, 2018, 10:28 am

I know that performance bonding is a part of the landscape when owners issue construction contracts to private contractors. In the event a private contractor is unable to fulfill his/her obligations to complete a project, the Owner can access the performance bond to ensure the project is completed.

Thinking forward to the potential of the Westcorp project starting and then being mothballed halfway through leaving an eyesore in the heart of the City for years to come (recall Lucaya, Sopa Square, the "dirt pile"), does anyone know of other jurisdictions that require developers to post bonds to ensure a project is completed once started. Is this something that is even possible?

A mechanism such as requiring the developer post a completion bond would remove any question about "deep pockets". It would ensure the city is not left with an eyesore for numerous years.
fz6adventure
Board Meister
 
Posts: 512
Likes: 813 posts
Liked in: 541 posts
Joined: Feb 25th, 2007, 5:43 pm

Re: The Westcorp hotel....

Postby LANDM » Feb 24th, 2018, 12:23 pm

fz6adventure wrote:I know that performance bonding is a part of the landscape when owners issue construction contracts to private contractors. In the event a private contractor is unable to fulfill his/her obligations to complete a project, the Owner can access the performance bond to ensure the project is completed.

Thinking forward to the potential of the Westcorp project starting and then being mothballed halfway through leaving an eyesore in the heart of the City for years to come (recall Lucaya, Sopa Square, the "dirt pile"), does anyone know of other jurisdictions that require developers to post bonds to ensure a project is completed once started. Is this something that is even possible?

A mechanism such as requiring the developer post a completion bond would remove any question about "deep pockets". It would ensure the city is not left with an eyesore for numerous years.

The city does require it.

fz6adventure likes this post.
LANDM
Guru
 
Posts: 6227
Likes: 1664 posts
Liked in: 3208 posts
Joined: Sep 18th, 2009, 11:58 am

Re: The Westcorp hotel....

Postby fz6adventure » Feb 24th, 2018, 12:26 pm

LANDM wrote:
fz6adventure wrote:I know that performance bonding is a part of the landscape when owners issue construction contracts to private contractors. In the event a private contractor is unable to fulfill his/her obligations to complete a project, the Owner can access the performance bond to ensure the project is completed.

Thinking forward to the potential of the Westcorp project starting and then being mothballed halfway through leaving an eyesore in the heart of the City for years to come (recall Lucaya, Sopa Square, the "dirt pile"), does anyone know of other jurisdictions that require developers to post bonds to ensure a project is completed once started. Is this something that is even possible?

A mechanism such as requiring the developer post a completion bond would remove any question about "deep pockets". It would ensure the city is not left with an eyesore for numerous years.

The city does require it.



So then the issue of an uncompleted structure is not an issue? Is this a relatively new requirement after the failures/delay of Lucaya, Sopa etc.?
fz6adventure
Board Meister
 
Posts: 512
Likes: 813 posts
Liked in: 541 posts
Joined: Feb 25th, 2007, 5:43 pm

Re: The Westcorp hotel....

Postby dle » Feb 24th, 2018, 1:40 pm

fz6adventure made a good point when commenting:

So then the issue of an uncompleted structure is not an issue? Is this a relatively new requirement after the failures/delay of Lucaya, Sopa etc.?




...and let's not forget The Conservatory, had us a real nice little weed patch for many years and a half finished building....the developers left us (literally) in the dust holding that bag....

3 people like this post.
dle
Übergod
 
Posts: 1246
Likes: 754 posts
Liked in: 1370 posts
Joined: Nov 14th, 2005, 1:29 pm

Re: The Westcorp hotel....

Postby 60-YEARS-in-Ktown » Feb 24th, 2018, 4:48 pm

*removed*
As part of the development process, for all appropriate developments in virtually every area of B.C. (non native land), the application will be referred out to many parties that must comment prior to a development advancing forward to the next stage.

The fire department is one of many and, as a result, the professionals who matter, (in this case, the fire department) will give professional comment specifically on this development along with any and all challenges it will pose and their recommendations for it.

I do not know what they said, but I know 100% that they have had all opportunity to comment specifically on their ability to fight a fire in the building, including the top floor. Since I am not a professional firefighter, what I or others think about it is irrelevant since that is not my area of expertise. I have complete trust that they know what they are doing as they know their capabilities for that specific design of a building and what the BC requirements are for fire suppression and minimizing loss of life and property damage.

I realize that you are curious about it and would urge you to go to the city development services and ask them what the fire department comment was on this development.[/quote]

I learned a few months ago that with tall towers like this our fire department requires a "refuge room" every x number of floors. In that fireproof room there are oxygen tanks and hoses among other equipment - so they don't have to carry all their heavy equipment up a staircase 30 floors! I found that really interesting.[/quote]

So what we need to know is how high the ladders on our firetrucks go, the you can shoot water above that, but not as effectively as shooting it directly into the building. So if they go to say 220 feet then can shoot up another 60, that makes 280.. again I don't know the figures.
This building is 440 feet anyone living over 30 stories is in a world of their own.
Especially in a fire..
Last edited by 60-YEARS-in-Ktown on Feb 24th, 2018, 6:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.
I'd like to help You OUT,
Which way did You come in??
User avatar
60-YEARS-in-Ktown
Lord of the Board
 
Posts: 3857
Likes: 463 posts
Liked in: 2059 posts
Joined: Sep 24th, 2006, 11:43 am
Location: Wrong side of the Tracks

Re: The Westcorp hotel....

Postby LANDM » Feb 24th, 2018, 6:35 pm

fz6adventure wrote:So then the issue of an uncompleted structure is not an issue? Is this a relatively new requirement after the failures/delay of Lucaya, Sopa etc.?

No, the city has required performance and maintenance bonds for quite a while. They are concerned about ensuring that their part (works, services etc) are all completed.
They are not concerned about the end product.
LANDM
Guru
 
Posts: 6227
Likes: 1664 posts
Liked in: 3208 posts
Joined: Sep 18th, 2009, 11:58 am

Re: The Westcorp hotel....

Postby fz6adventure » Feb 24th, 2018, 6:42 pm

LANDM wrote:
fz6adventure wrote:So then the issue of an uncompleted structure is not an issue? Is this a relatively new requirement after the failures/delay of Lucaya, Sopa etc.?

No, the city has required performance and maintenance bonds for quite a while. They are concerned about ensuring that their part (works, services etc) are all completed.
They are not concerned about the end product.



Yes I'm aware of bonds that are put in place for things like site servicing and landscaping but these are just covered back by the developer with his contractors. What I'm wondering is if there are any jurisdictions that have some sort of bonding in place to protect against being left with an unfinished structure - like we have experienced so frequently in Kelowna.

I can't imagine something like to Lucaya sitting in a highly visible location as the Westcorp property.

Kelowna is not the only place I've seen this. I've seen it around the developed world just not seemingly to the extent we see it in Kelowna.
fz6adventure
Board Meister
 
Posts: 512
Likes: 813 posts
Liked in: 541 posts
Joined: Feb 25th, 2007, 5:43 pm

Re: The Westcorp hotel....

Postby 60-YEARS-in-Ktown » Feb 24th, 2018, 8:28 pm

Grandan wrote:
Anonymous123 wrote:It may not collapse, but it is being built on unstable ground. Ever wonder why we have a floating bridge? This whole area, close to and including the lake bottom, has no real bedrock. Those sandy beaches occur naturally.

There are numerous ways to support a building on land which has limited bearing capacity.
The Grand was built on a raft slab which was stated to be 8ft thick. If a structure as massive as the bridge would float, why not a building?
Other towers are built on pilings driven into the ground until they meet sufficient resistance. Such pilings may be tens or more feet deep into the underlying soils.
To suggest that a structural engineer would sign off on a building that would sink unpredictably into the mire is just plain wrong.


You raise interesting points but the bridge has almost no windloads compared to a 440 ft building.
Even if it listed 40 degrees it would right itself. Add to that I believe it has side cables and anchors to prevent this, Westcorp building does not.
You mention The Grand as we knew it when it was built. Not nearly the wind load vs footprint size that the Westcorp has , it may however have similar ground conditions.
I am far less worried about the bridge , and be less worried about 33 stories if it were further back.
If we get another freak windstorm like we had around the nineties? I think the area between the hotel and water will have boats all over it.
I dont know what the airspeed was but it was pretty high.
Last edited by 60-YEARS-in-Ktown on Feb 24th, 2018, 8:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.
I'd like to help You OUT,
Which way did You come in??
User avatar
60-YEARS-in-Ktown
Lord of the Board
 
Posts: 3857
Likes: 463 posts
Liked in: 2059 posts
Joined: Sep 24th, 2006, 11:43 am
Location: Wrong side of the Tracks

Re: The Westcorp hotel....

Postby fz6adventure » Feb 24th, 2018, 8:37 pm

There are no geotechnical constraints that cannot be addressed through design

3 people like this post.
fz6adventure
Board Meister
 
Posts: 512
Likes: 813 posts
Liked in: 541 posts
Joined: Feb 25th, 2007, 5:43 pm

Re: The Westcorp hotel....

Postby Jflem1983 » Feb 25th, 2018, 8:53 am

Personally. I dont think it will get built any time soon. They have not even pre loaded the site
Now they want to take our guns away . That would be just fine. Take em away from the criminals first . Ill gladly give u mine. "Charlie Daniels"

You have got to stand for something . Or you will fall for anything "Aaron Tippin"

3 people like this post.
User avatar
Jflem1983
Lord of the Board
 
Posts: 4986
Likes: 11187 posts
Liked in: 2848 posts
Joined: Aug 23rd, 2015, 11:38 am

Re: The Westcorp hotel....

Postby fz6adventure » Feb 25th, 2018, 10:05 am

Jflem1983 wrote:Personally. I dont think it will get built any time soon. They have not even pre loaded the site


I agree with you, but because I believe a real estate correction will likely happen between now and before they have the financing in place.

There are other ways to mitigate siesmic liquifaction that are available. Pre-loading is an expensive method unless there is preload material nearby and a place to take it to nearby after the pre-load is completed. Trucking material in and out is costly & time consuming. Also, the duration required for pre-loading can take months to take the required effect.
Last edited by fz6adventure on Feb 25th, 2018, 12:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.
fz6adventure
Board Meister
 
Posts: 512
Likes: 813 posts
Liked in: 541 posts
Joined: Feb 25th, 2007, 5:43 pm

Re: The Westcorp hotel....

Postby Terris » Feb 25th, 2018, 11:07 am

It's plainly obvious, even to supporters of this building blunder, that this city council was bought and paid for by a special interest and NOT legally elected by fully informed taxpayers of Kelowna.

Others here, including myself, have been commenting on this process from the start and "conspiracy theories" aside, there is plainly enough suspicious evidence of collusion, and corruption, in my opinion, that they made this decision despite all wise council against it.

This dodging of the city planning department advice alone, in my mind, warrants an inquiry into this process.

It's also plainly evident that bribery may have influenced this process and we should demand disclosure of any insider relationship between this and past city councils and "developers" seeking outrageous fortune here.

My own opinions are based, in part, upon over a year of doing work for this arrogant company 7 years ago. It was obvious back then already, that the company was dangling lures and courting players while regularly expressing confidence that they would ultimately prevail.

Egregious changes such as this need to be put to a referendum of local taxpayers and not based on ad hoc decisions made in council chambers based on the voices of a few non resident supporters of the developers appearing before Mayor Smiley McGladhands in lieu of apathetic Kelowna residents.

Residents with roots here need a voice too...

The only redeeming factor here is that all future city councils will sit forever in the shadow of this ginormous erection aka. Basran's *bleep*, and that in the future, this blunder will be included in Urban Planning university textbooks as an example of how NOT to revitalize an existing heritage town site while being exposed with your hands in the till...

4 people like this post.
Terris
Board Meister
 
Posts: 471
Likes: 232 posts
Liked in: 248 posts
Joined: Apr 18th, 2014, 10:55 am

Re: The Westcorp hotel....

Postby dirtybiker » Feb 25th, 2018, 11:22 am

Jflem1983 wrote:Personally. I dont think it will get built any time soon.



To this, I agree.

It would not surprise me one bit to see Westcorp come back to
the table yet again with even more variances and zoning change
applications for this site.

It would not even surprise me if the land, with present changes
was put on the sales block on the World stage, zoning in place.
"Don't 'p' down my neck then tell me it's raining!"

2 people like this post.
dirtybiker
Guru
 
Posts: 6419
Likes: 5692 posts
Liked in: 2840 posts
Joined: Mar 8th, 2008, 7:00 pm
Location: Central OK

Re: The Westcorp hotel....

Postby 60-YEARS-in-Ktown » Feb 25th, 2018, 11:28 am

I will at this time ask , what has Westcorp actually built in Kelowna ?
They have been here 15 plus years ?
I'd like to help You OUT,
Which way did You come in??

3 people like this post.
User avatar
60-YEARS-in-Ktown
Lord of the Board
 
Posts: 3857
Likes: 463 posts
Liked in: 2059 posts
Joined: Sep 24th, 2006, 11:43 am
Location: Wrong side of the Tracks

PreviousNext

Return to Central Okanagan

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: CommonCrawl [Bot] and 2 guests