Kelowna's underground economy

Re: Kelowna's underground economy

Postby zak97 » Jan 13th, 2010, 12:29 am

No they don't lie on here .
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Re: Kelowna's underground economy

Postby grammafreddy » Jan 13th, 2010, 1:57 am

BoB76 wrote:So nobody pays cash for things on here? Yes I do - but I don't use cheques, debit or credit - only cash Does anybody pick their noses? Umm ... no. Not since I was about four years old. You are all liars!! Bite your tongue!!!! Give me a break! Arm or leg? How many people out there are claiming EI and still working full time? Nope Welfare with cash jobs? Nope On WCB but going skiing on weekends? Nope - there's a ski hill??? There are so many ways people steal from the Governments and you can't tell me nobody does it. I know people who do all of the above and that's just me.


Maybe you need a new circle of friends, Bob?????? :200:
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Re: Kelowna's underground economy

Postby robik » Jan 13th, 2010, 5:56 am

zak97 wrote:Don't you think I know this ?My point is that it is done with the ok from government.They post an ad for 400 welders 300 Canadians apply,so the company says we need to hire from overseas.Instead of hiring 300 Canadians and 100 foriegn workers they hire 50 of us and 300 foriegn workers You pay half of their wages they pay no tax and take your tax dollars home.This happens with every trade out there.Are YOU ok with this.


What are you smoking there, Scat For Brains? The company I work for (construction) brought two workers over from Eastern Europe. They came to Canada with their own travel, documentation and rent money. They have been here for two years now and they pay income tax on $$$ earned in Canada. Further, these guys out work every Canadian employee, save but a couple, we have. They genuinely value their job, respect the companies equipment and are honest to a fault (no cheating on timecards, stealing customers/companies goods).

As for the "underground economy", anyone who thinks they are saving big bucks by dealing in cash is dishonest, a thief and assuming some very high risk. I would think that most of the contractors who would accept a "cash" deal probably aren't that concerned about liability insurance, WCB coverage, building codes, etc. Deposits and draw payments, construction liens are all risks to homeowners who hire someone who doesn't provide a written contract and documentation. Any "professional" contractor doesn't deal with shysters looking for "cash" deals.
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Re: Kelowna's underground economy

Postby cutter7 » Jan 13th, 2010, 8:11 am

You think because the company you work for is honest and has honest employee's everyone else does?

And you call some one else scat for brains?
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Re: Kelowna's underground economy

Postby zak97 » Jan 13th, 2010, 9:58 am

Ok Robik I am guessing that you work here in town?I am a welder that works in oil and gas up north and piss test to even get the job so not smoking much.I have no problem with foriegn people moving to Canada. The people i am talking about dont pay rent they live in camp thier family is still in what ever country they came from .They are only here for the work when the say 6 month job is done they go back home taking every dime that they made with them no taxes paid.You and I pay them 18 dollars an hr and the company that hires them pays them 18 dollars.this is happening as we speak there are thousands of trades people out of work loosing thier homes ,that would be working if the Government would close that loop hole.
Now please refrain from calling me names unless you can back your words.
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Re: Kelowna's underground economy

Postby dirtybiker » Jan 13th, 2010, 10:24 am

cutter7 wrote:You think because the company you work for is honest and has honest employee's everyone else does?

And you call some one else scat for brains?


Although Robiks' insults seem unwarranted, the points he brings across are valid. Working for a reputable company has the benefit of being secure. That alone leaves the employee to work with 'pride.' Knowing the employer has your back.
Working for someone who is always trying to find a way to deliver less while profiting the same or more, or enabling someone else to do the same, (cash jobs) will always leave you wondering when 'you' are the next one to get screwed out of something.
This clutters the mind, taking away from the quality of the job performance which, in turn reduces the pride of workmanship.....IMO.....Thanks
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Re: Kelowna's underground economy

Postby cutter7 » Jan 13th, 2010, 10:59 am

thanks dirty biker, your response was well written and I certainly can't argue with your points.

The poster i responded to seemed to state that because the company he worked for was honest the other poster was wrong and lowered himself to name calling. There are a lot of things going on out there and just because we are not involved or don't believe they are right does not mean they don't exist.
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Re: Kelowna's underground economy

Postby robik » Jan 13th, 2010, 12:48 pm

Hey Cutter, I was talking about Zak's implication that immigrants abscond with all our Canadian tax money, nothing to do with me working for an honest company. One can only govern one's own self, as I said earlier, "roll with pigs, you get mud on yourself," I choose to work for an honest company.

I don't pretend to be any better than any other trades employee, however, I do know I am honest and try my best to make my relationships, both personal and business, turn out win-win.

To Zak, I apologize for the name calling, I was feeling a bit cranky this morning. I am sure you have much more exposure to the temporary immigration labour problems than I do, I was speaking only of the experience I know from the guys I work with. Generally good, honest, hard-working indiviuals. Unfortunately, I can't say that for much of our home grown talent.

Underground economy hurts us in many more areas than lost taxes. Poor labour rates, inferior work, generalaties that make people think all trades are dishonest, cheaters.
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Re: Kelowna's underground economy

Postby cutter7 » Jan 13th, 2010, 1:02 pm

Not a problem, we all have our bad days and i've made my fair share of comments that cheese people off.

As i read the comments here on saving a few dollars and it affecting our economy it could be argued that cheating a bit on taxes actually helps fuel our economy. If we wind up paying 60 percent of our dollar to various taxes, at the end of the day there is not much left to spend to support our local economy. If somebody saved say 60 bucks paying cash they might go out and spend it on a dinner or clothes and that helps provide jobs to people who do pay tax. the tax man gets his share anyway and someone has helped fuel the local economy.
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Re: Kelowna's underground economy

Postby Glacier » Jan 13th, 2010, 1:33 pm

cutter7 wrote:As i read the comments here on saving a few dollars and it affecting our economy it could be argued that cheating a bit on taxes actually helps fuel our economy.

It doesn't matter if cheating helps the economy, it is still wrong.

Anyway, the government has to raise taxes on the rest of us to cover the losses incurred by all the cheaters out there.
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Re: Kelowna's underground economy

Postby quietlywatching84 » Jan 13th, 2010, 2:20 pm

As i read the comments here on saving a few dollars and it affecting our economy it could be argued that cheating a bit on taxes actually helps fuel our economy. If we wind up paying 60 percent of our dollar to various taxes, at the end of the day there is not much left to spend to support our local economy. If somebody saved say 60 bucks paying cash they might go out and spend it on a dinner or clothes and that helps provide jobs to people who do pay tax. the tax man gets his share anyway and someone has helped fuel the local economy.


Doesn't change a thing. All your tax money goes back into the economy anyways. Taxes merely provide services at the state level (with some exceptions).

For a simple example, the government taxes you $5, they turn around and spend $5 on roads (built by construction workers), hospitals (run by medical professionals) and so on and so forth. Those people use that money to by goods and services right back into the economy.

Glacier's point is right as well, the burden merely shifts onto the people who pay taxes, that is really the only person who gets hurt in this instance.
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Re: Kelowna's underground economy

Postby LoneWolf_53 » Jan 13th, 2010, 7:09 pm

It can be viewed from a number of different angles depending on one's station in life.

The stinking rich all too often have high priced accountants that find creative ways to avoid paying taxes.

The middle class to lower class self employed Joe who's simply trying to make ends meet may well be inclined to work for cash but the money he makes goes right back into the economy anyway with a portion going for taxes on goods. The alternative might well be that he's on employment insurance and costing the tax payers even more.

Ultimately it's the middle class hourly worker that pays his full share of tax and that because he can't afford creative accountants.

What amuses me is that having been in a service industry all my life you'd be surprised the types that are often the most eager to conduct cash under the table transactions and believe me they aren't the lower class income earners.

Not only that but I've noticed a significant number are in civil servant type positions.

You ought to see how indignant they get when informed that we generate invoices ergo they have to pay the taxes owing.

For most it appears that cash and tax free go hand in hand.

For the person that is naive enough to think that for $5 collected in tax $5 goes back into services all I can say is Ha Ha Ha.

You must have forgotten how many government employees there are pushing pencils for each person actually working in a productive position that has to generate money to pay for the other four who more often than not have far more generous perks and pensions than the productive one can ever hope to have.
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Re: Kelowna's underground economy

Postby LoneWolf_53 » Jan 13th, 2010, 7:13 pm

grammafreddy wrote:Maybe you need a new circle of friends, Bob?????? :200:


BoB has friends???????????????????????????? :dyinglaughing:
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Re: Kelowna's underground economy

Postby Graham Adder » Jan 13th, 2010, 7:26 pm

LoneWolf_53 wrote:
grammafreddy wrote:Maybe you need a new circle of friends, Bob?????? :200:


BoB has friends???????????????????????????? :dyinglaughing:

I think the 'r' was a typo.
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Re: Kelowna's underground economy

Postby quietlywatching84 » Jan 13th, 2010, 7:59 pm

For the person that is naive enough to think that for $5 collected in tax $5 goes back into services all I can say is Ha Ha Ha.


Never said that it all went into services, just said for the most part it goes back into the economy.
Now the question of "did the government actually do something useful with the money" is a whole other story (often a sad one I admit). The $5 still exists, it's just not in your hands anymore.

Long story short, skipping the taxes will give you more buying power than everybody else. If your really concerned about the $5, and how it moves around in the economy, I would suggest taking an interest in politics.

I quite frankly don't blame anybody for wanting to save $5, heck, I want to save the $5. I just have to point out, your just saving $5.
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