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[glassmaster]

I can't see where anyone is attacking you _Hello_ ... you, on the other hand, seem to have a pretty bad case of passive/agressive going on.

It is one things to say that the 'New Generation' is different ... and quite another to actually see examples of that. Maybe the PIB doesn't want what the Westbank or Osoyoos bands have, but even if they just want financial security and success for their people - it will take cooperation with (and by) the City of Penticton and the District of Summerland.

It was not the Old Generation that did a militant road block to Apex and it wasn't the Old Generation that stormed Stockwell Day's campaign office in camoflage gear and intimidated the volunteers in the office. I'm not saying that is you _Hello_ ... I'm just saying that those kinds of things do not create an atmosphere that is good for creating 'partnerships'. It is confrontational and will hold back the PIB from success. I think that the majority of non First Nations people in the Penticton/Summerland area would like to see the PIB move forward and would celebrate their success right along with them ... but that just isn't going to happen until it is proven that there has been a change in attitude. Together (City,PIB, and developers) could create some great things ... but it won't happen without cooperation and trusted partnerships.

[_Hello_]

I can't see where anyone is attacking you _Hello_ ... you, on the other hand, seem to have a pretty bad case of passive/agressive going on.

It is one things to say that the 'New Generation' is different ... and quite another to actually see examples of that. Maybe the PIB doesn't want what the Westbank or Osoyoos bands have, but even if they just want financial security and success for their people - it will take cooperation with (and by) the City of Penticton and the District of Summerland.

It was not the Old Generation that did a militant road block to Apex and it wasn't the Old Generation that stormed Stockwell Day's campaign office in camoflage gear and intimidated the volunteers in the office. I'm not saying that is you _Hello_ ... I'm just saying that those kinds of things do not create an atmosphere that is good for creating 'partnerships'. It is confrontational and will hold back the PIB from success. I think that the majority of non First Nations people in the Penticton/Summerland area would like to see the PIB move forward and would celebrate their success right along with them ... but that just isn't going to happen until it is proven that there has been a change in attitude. Together (City,PIB, and developers) could create some great things ... but it won't happen without cooperation and trusted partnerships.

That's understood on my end, it's just not fair that the YOU PEOPLE want to blame blame blame PIB people and act like PENTICTON PEOPLE sat back and did nothing, like you are all innocent. Why? Don't pretend that you guys didn't fight back or start fights either. IT WORKS BOTH WAYS! what part of that are you people not understanding?? And why do you continue to act like PIB NEEDS Penticton to move forward? we are CURRENTLY doing things that do not even involve you, of course you wouldn't know that, so i'm telling you now. so get over the fact that PIB NEEDS you people to move forward. PENTICTON DID NOT ALWAYS COOPERATE WITH PIB! WHAT ABOUT YOU PEOPLE'S CHANGE IN ATTITUDE, WHAT ARE YOU PEOPLE GOING TO PROVE!?!

[_Hello_]

I am no longer going to speak about this becuase there's no point in speaking to an old generation who cannot get over their heart break and who only want to speak negative. I'm so over it. i'll let the hand ful of you cry and B*tch about the past.

[glassmaster]

To be honest, I think the NON First Nations people have been very passive under direct aggression from the PIB. Probably because we have had it drilled in to us that it wouldn't be 'politically correct' to fight back. There was zero 'fighting back' when Stockwell Day's office was stormed ... and it WAS stormed. The volunteers were pulled from their chairs so that someone in camoflage could take their seat. Those in camoflage were young First Nations people. The RCMP eventually arrived - but did nothing. There can never be a cooperation or a partnership if you (or others) still see that as being ok ... it shouldn't be 'them against us'.

Anyhow, if you don't think you need to partner with the City of Penticton, District of Summerland or developers in order to achieve financial security of the band ... then I guess that is where things will stay. Oliver, Osoyoos and Westbank will continue to move forward (as they are far and away beyond all of this nonsense).

[fluffy]

I am no longer going to speak about this becuase there's no point in speaking to an old generation who cannot get over their heart break and who only want to speak negative. I'm so over it. i'll let the hand ful of you cry and B*tch about the past.

Classic cop out. Apparently the "New" generation has some old tricks.

[_Hello_]

I am no longer going to speak about this becuase there's no point in speaking to an old generation who cannot get over their heart break and who only want to speak negative. I'm so over it. i'll let the hand ful of you cry and B*tch about the past.

Classic cop out. Apparently the "New" generation has some old tricks.

Actually there's just no point in having conversation with an OLD BRICK WALL. Simple as that. It's a waste of time that i've spent.

[glassmaster]

_Hello_ , to assume that you are dealing with an Old Brick Wall ... or an Old Generation here ... you would be tragically wrong. You are dealing with a group of people that would celebrate the success of the PIB.

I think you are the one that is stuck in the 'them against me' attitude. You claim to be New Generation ... but your words are dripping with anger and blame. I hope that is not the general attitude of the people of the PIB - because it really is about time things changed. Hopefully your new leadership has some of Chief Louie's ideals ... because there is absolutely no reason that the PIB can't have the financial security and respect that the OIB has.

[Darkre]

_Hello_, it is fortunate that you are no longer going to contribute to this topic as you have brought nothing to what was a civil discussion. You claim that we don't understand yet you provide no knowledge for us to learn from. I asked you to educate instead of calling people names but you have chosen to ignore that advice and that is sad as castanet is a great platform upon which you could have begun to craft a better image of the PIB and it's future. You had an opportunity to educate "the igorant" as you like to call us but instead chose to be confrontational and in the process you accomplished nothing positive. This is too bad as I know I would have liked to have learned from your first hand knowledge about how the PIB is changing and their plans moving forward.

I don't think anyone on these forums has said that the PIB does not have the right to develop their land as they want. Peoples main arguments were that there is already a glut of retail properties on the market and that this is the wrong project at the wrong time for the Penticton area. Also the PIB absolutely needs Penticton and Summerland to move forward. Without their water and waste water treatment facilities the PIB will never receive environmental approvaland this is the wrong project at the wrong time to move forward with any large scale developments.

[fluffy]

What I'm seeing here is the passion of youth that has not yet been tempered with the wisdom of experience. Thus it has always been, and will likely always be.

[fluffy]

Actually there's just no point in having conversation with an OLD BRICK WALL. Simple as that. It's a waste of time that i've spent.

Conversation? You have criticized, ridiculed, insulted, and tried to intimidate, but you have not conversed. You have not offered anything of relevance to this discussion at all. This is the part you don't get. A project the magnitude of what is being attempted on PIB land takes millions. Millions that the PIB does not have without investors from outside. And the last thing that an investor wants to see is a potential business partner given to making decisions rooted in emotion rather than reason and sound business sense. If every member of the PIB feels as you do, things will never change.

[twobits]

So glad I tuned in late to miss that exchange. I doubt I could have been as polite as many of you.

[fluffy]

I see his name is now coming up "no such user". Looks like our young friend has made a strategic retreat. I guess that saves him the horrible inconvenience of actually making a pertinent contribution.

[spacecadet]

I also have come into this discussion a little late and have to say that I'm very offended by the comments made by Hel_lo. Tell me how this poster's comments did anything but offend? I have to applaud everyone on their posts. This would have been a great place to receive information and education. Typical Canadians, though, we are very polite and don't really say what we want to so as not to offend. But, as I've taught my children, respect goes BOTH ways. I've often wondered WHY our neighbour's land to the West has missed the boat and not developed like Osoyoos and Wesbank. The obvious is the leadership at those Bands. And maybe Hel_lo is representative of what the Developers are dealing with. I would love to hear how they are moving ahead and developing their land. I was hoping with the new Chief that this would happen.
After a trip up to Kelowna last week and while driving through West Kelowna, I was amazed at how fast ANOTHER strip mall is going up there. It's been a month since I was up that way and I can't believe how fast the developments are going up.
What's the holdup here?

[twobits]

and I can't believe how fast the developments are going up.
What's the holdup here?

Decades of militant behaviour that have soured both potential economic partners and residents. Lack of leadership. Poor leadership. Lack of vision. Lack of funds due to poor management. Lack of initiative. Demands of entitlment. Take your pick.

How many times in the last 20 years have announcments been made about water and sewer and roads along the dikes and ...so on. Grand plans for economic prosperity. What have we seen? A gas station most famous for selling cheap cigarettes and an 8 by 14 ft coffee bar that has been stuck in a half state of construction for a year now. A gift shop and hot dog stand for channel rafters. Anything else in 20 yrs? 30yrs?
The main reserve entrance is a positive image for economic partners as well. Best described as a delapidated industrial zone. Our self professed stewards of the environment have permitted to be piled beside the road rotting equipment, used tires, barrels of waste oil, a "I'll store and sell any junk I can get away with" busibess, delapidated cedar mill that burns waste any time it wants because it can on the reserve, fields and yards full of car wrecks leaching fluids into the ground. That is their entrance. Why doesn't the band clean it up at least? Because those are Locatee lands owned by individual members the the Band has no control over. And the Band has just as much control over the Locatee land for the proposed commercial development too. So who is this development going to benefit exactly? Is it more than Locatee onwers and how? There was a poster here that could have shared those details but.....

[fluffy]

There was a poster here that could have shared those details but.....

Somehow I doubt that. I think our young friend was more a purveyor of unfocused teen anger than any useful information, hence his hasty departure when it became obvious that bravado alone was not going to suffice in this discussion.

Bit I do agree on your point that the saber-rattling of recent administrations has left a legacy of unpredictability surrounding the PIB, something that potential investors are not comfortable with.