Castanet

kumazatheef wrote:What are you talking about? There's been news articles saying the underpass would be completed near end of November, and the entire project finished by end of year - weather permitting. Every day I've driven that route I see some sort of activity, even on weekends. If it really bothered you that much you'd read their webpage: http://www.westsideroadinterchange.ca/page2.html On that page you'll find their initial schedule for completion - however, this was altered with the collapse of the retaining walls a year ago, which set the project off by a few months. Just because you don't see anything, doesn't mean something isn't going on, waaay back a couple years ago before construction got to the highway, soil compaction started off Westside Rd. And recently, unless you're one of the rubber-neckers going 30km/hr through the zone, there's an underpass that required grading, utilities, and paving. Geeze, seriously. Armchair engineers the lot of you.

Are you people extremely impatient or just completely unrealistic? Pick one.

dodgerdodge wrote:

kumazatheef wrote:What are you talking about? There's been news articles saying the underpass would be completed near end of November, and the entire project finished by end of year - weather permitting. Every day I've driven that route I see some sort of activity, even on weekends. If it really bothered you that much you'd read their webpage: http://www.westsideroadinterchange.ca/page2.html On that page you'll find their initial schedule for completion - however, this was altered with the collapse of the retaining walls a year ago, which set the project off by a few months. Just because you don't see anything, doesn't mean something isn't going on, waaay back a couple years ago before construction got to the highway, soil compaction started off Westside Rd. And recently, unless you're one of the rubber-neckers going 30km/hr through the zone, there's an underpass that required grading, utilities, and paving. Geeze, seriously. Armchair engineers the lot of you.

Are you people extremely impatient or just completely unrealistic? Pick one

But nothing was going on for most of the summer which was in fact the driest period we had sustained for many years so weather would have been perfect for work. Why wasn't the north end of the project finished. The tarmac and layout for the merge lane were only recently done but had nothing to do with the construction of the underpass.
I travelled the road almost daily and it was plain obvious without rubber necking that work stopped. Large pieces of machinery parked up collecting dust, no movement of trucks as there is now, hardly a hard hat to be seen most days.

Was this an engineering feat beyond all previous engineering feats? Was this a new design using state of the art new materials and methods previously unseen or tested? NO it was a road construction project similar to dozens, hundreds or thousands that have been designed and built worldwide and would have been a walk in the park for any construction company bidding on this kind of project and therefore should have been a breeze for the companies concerned, unless they were armchair engineers of course.

DashFiveGuy wrote:Ok, it's obvious by your response that you are just being argumentative because no one in their right mind could possibly be serious in suggesting that the Westside Rd interchange project is somehow more complex then building the Lions Gate Bridge was.

DashFiveGuy wrote:If you want to compare apples to apples fine, then how about the project to replace the floating bridge.

DashFiveGuy wrote: and yet the entire bridge replacement project took just a few months more than what this fiasco

DashFiveGuy wrote:The Westside Rd interchange project had far less to do with improving safety or traffic flow than it did in providing access to a new shopping center.

dodgerdodge wrote:But nothing was going on for most of the summer which was in fact the driest period we had sustained for many years so weather would have been perfect for work. Why wasn't the north end of the project finished.

kumazatheef wrote:
Uuuh .... they were working on the Sneena Rd approach. The part that's hard to see from the highway cause there's a mobile home park in the way, and well, just can't see it from the highway. Involved in that was also installation of utilities, those little things like sewer and drainage and all that, things you don't need "large pieces of machinery" to do ... and, blah, who am I kidding, were you blind?

Wait wait ... hold on, are we talking about a different Westside Rd interchange?

dodgerdodge wrote:So there were people working but nobody could see them. Ok a couple of guys with shovels were digging ditches for drainage on that road that no one can see and no one will use unless they live in the mobile home park.

kumazatheef wrote:So you're saying dirt = water??
Sorry, if you truly want to compare apples to apples find me a construction job similar to Westside Rd. ... the closest that comes to mind is the complete re-org of the highway through Chilliwack ... which I believe took several years as well, but feel free to prove me wrong.

DashFiveGuy wrote:First of all, would it kill you to learn how to use the quote feature properly? Re-read you're post from yesterday at 8:35pm.

DashFiveGuy wrote:... a construction project over water is infinitely more complex than one solely on land ...

DashFiveGuy wrote:Since you brought it up, the Evans Rd connector project in Chilliwack may not be a bad comparison for your apples to apples cliché. Like the Westside Rd interchange project, the Evans Rd connector project also involved an overpass over a busy highway, a traffic circle, elevated earth ramps with similar retaining walls and first nations territory. Sure, the Evans Rd project only has one overpass as opposed to the two in the Westside Rd project but that one overpass spans a wider and busier highway as well as a busy service road additionally it involved two new freeway on/off ramps, realignment/creation of multiple connecting roads and significantly more paving work. At $48 million, even the budgets for the 2 projects were similar. Really the biggest differences between the two projects were the scheduled timeframes! The Evans Rd connector project broke ground on 22 August 2008 and was scheduled for completion by spring 2010 but it was opened for use on 30 October 2009, several months AHEAD of schedule!

DashFiveGuy wrote:First of all, would it kill you to learn how to use the quote feature properly? Re-read you're post from yesterday at 8:35pm.

kumazatheef wrote:Yes, yes it would. But for clarity's sake, do you mind pointing out what was done improperly? As far as I can tell it's just rebutting point-by-point.

kumazatheef wrote:Want me to point out that the original budget for the Evans Rd project was set at $38 million? Or, as you pointed out, Evans Rd only had 1 overpass, whereas Westside Rd has 2 ... so that should make it in the ballpark of twice as long ... oh wait, which it is, even with the wall collapse, so had the wall not collapsed it would've been shorter ... and again, as you pointed out, at roughly the same budget for twice the number of passes, we're getting a pretty good deal. So 1 apple = 2 apples? Guess that explains my predicament this morning where 1 cup of coffee wasn't satisfying enough.

The 2.5 kilometre connecter and interchange links Evans Road at Knight Road to the south, with Ashwell Road at Deans Avenue to the north; providing an alternate route for residents, businesses and visitors between Chilliwack and Sardis. Extended bike lanes and sidewalks will provide continuity for cyclists and pedestrians. There is a roundabout as well as bridge crossings over Chilliwack Creek and Chilliwack Creek diversion. The project also includes an at-grade rail crossing over the CN Railway. The Evans Road Connector project will connect Evans Road to Prospera Centre.

The Canada-BC Municipal Rural Infrastructure Fund provided a $2 million grant towards the project. The BC Ministry of Transportation contributed $4 million and ICBC has funded $100,000. The remaining costs of the project are paid for by City of Chilliwack development cost charges. The $48.8 million budget for the Evans Road Connector project includes land purchase, utilities, environmental and engineering costs. The budget also contains an allowance of $150,000 for landscape work, which is expected to be completed in spring 2010.

The Evans Road Connector project is made possible through a partnership between the Squiala First Nation and the federal, provincial and municipal governments. A land easement agreement allows the new road to cross Squiala lands. The agreement includes the installation of underground utility services, which opens up over 100 acres of land for First Nation development.

DashFiveGuy wrote:You re-read your post and still can't figure out how you screwed up the quote? Hard to believe.

Sad that I have to lead you by the hand but here goes... In your nonsensical post from yesterday at 8:35pm have a look at the paragraph immediately following the line where I ask you what the fact that it (Lions gate bridge) was initially a toll bridge has to do with how long it took to complete. They way you've quoted it you make it appear that the next paragraph is your rebuttal when in fact it was more of my quote.

DashFiveGuy wrote:Want me to point out that it was your idea to compare to this project? As it turns out it was a pretty decent comparison, just doesn't support your argument is all.

http://www.chilliwack.ca/main/page.cfm?id=1505

- they're both on land ... so that's something in common

- they both involve having to deal with heavy traffic ... well, close, Evans Rd didn't require significant detours off the main artery, but y'know, there's more traffic so lets give that a wash

- they both involve overpasses ... check.

- oh wait, one of them has 2 overpasses ... hmm ... quick math on that one leads me to believe that more structures = more work.

kumazatheef wrote:So in summary the Evans Rd project is a better overall comparison than a bridge over water, and it's differences are limited, with the exception of one having 2 separate spans.

Hey, I'll tell ya what. Let's settle this with a wee competition, I'll build a 2,000 sq ft house, and you build a 3,800 sq ft house ... whoever completes first, wins.

Quick edit to add that the original projected budget for Westside Rd was $41 million ... so we're still getting a deal at twice as many passes for the same cost.

kumazatheef wrote:But I digress, using the aforementioned logic if a bridge is infinitely more complex than 2 overpasses, then that would make Evans Rd half as infinite as Westside Rd ... so you're right, they should've had it done way faster than the project managers and professional engineers that designed, consulted, and planned for ... shame on them for utilizing their years of experience and expertise and not satisfying your impatience.

kumazatheef wrote:As previously stated, annoying to drive through that construction multiple times a day? Yes, and let me ask you: did you do your due diligence and approach them when they had their open house?

kumazatheef wrote:Have you designed/planned anything of this magnitude yourself? If you honestly think that the professionals whose careers it is to build these things are wrong, then I have some home renos I'm looking to get done by end of week, so you're hired.