Grad camp outs

[FreeRights]

Deny them going to a party. Do not teach responsibility. Teach "abstinence".

Then next year when they are in college - they can go to all the bars they want and drink their faces off. Good thing you saved them for a few months 'more".

Instead of knowing what a responsible adult does in terms of drinking and enjoying social gatherings and having a ADULT parent/child relationship - they will know to lie, deceive and go around you in adult life.

My parents drove my sister and picked her up from one of these parties about 7 years ago. Designated Driver for all her friends - terrible I know. It would have been much smarter to deny her and in turn let her lie about her evening and go up to the bush and possibly get a ride home with a drunk. They also drove her up there so they knew where it was for safety, and to be a part of her adult life because 6 months later she was living in Calgary all on her own and could go to any "party" she wished.

The bush parties my dad went to in the 70's - people used to throw boxes of .22 shells in the fire as a surprise for party goers "for fun". Hiding M80 firecrackers in peoples cigarettes. Knife fights and drag racing muscle cars drunk off your rocker was "the thing" to do. Saying "bush parties are worse now" is pretty amusing.

I definitely get what you're saying, but this isn't a genital measuring contest and it's quite obvious that present-day grad camp-out parties are very dangerous as well. Take what you do at a grad party and add the new drugs people use, and you have the recipe of a very bad event.

[Nom_de_Plume]

I have no idea if they're worse or not.
I'm an MBSS grad went to the grad campout (mid 80's) Had a blast, but then again I stayed sober (actually always am)
Were we more mature back then? dunno all I know is that we were fully aware that we were nearly adults.

[gardengirl]

I'm not a parent, so perhaps I can't offer great advice. However, my take is that bush/grad parties these days ARE NOT how they were when I graduated (10+ years ago) and older.

Yes, we got drunk, yes there were a few fist fights and yes, I'm sure some people drove home drunk. However, is it just me, or are kids these days more reckless? It seems after these types of events there is always stabbings, murders, overdoses, rapes or etc... these types of things NEVER happened at any of the parties I attended. What is with kids these days?

What about a compromise with your child? You will drive them there and pick them up at YOUR set time? That way, they get to have a little fun with their friends (as many of us have done when we were young), but then you know they are safe at home at the end of the night (or beginning of the morning).

I was about to say much the same thing. We did bush parties too, but no one got shot or stabbed. There was lots of booze and some pot, that was about it. There was no cocaine or crystal meth, x or anything like that. I remember the police coming to check thing out, but never any real trouble, no lights, sirens, ambulances.

[Apple11]

I also went to MBSS in the 90s. we had bush parties and grad campout as well here is what I know:
There is always booze at these parties and more likey than not weed and whatever else will be brought out...but the booze WILL be there. "campout" is just a fancy way of saying...overnight party ie: no curfew
I went to the parties but I also had the kind of relationship with my parents that they trusted me and I never let them down. They knew where i was at all times, if they said be home at 11pm I was home at 10:59 NEVER once late. I never broke the trust we had. I was open and honest with them. Yes there was going to be booze etc...they knew that, but I made sure they knew I knew hey knew. I had some drinks sometimes, but did not abuse it, and always had a dd and if not my parents came and got me, end of story.
Do you let her go? That is between you and her. If you say no, she will get over it. If you say yes, she may have a great time, she may not. It all comes down to your relationship with her and what you feel is right. Its your choice not hers.
other facts: people get drunk, they do crazy things, people get hurt, people DO drink and drive, kids get brave in large groups. There will probably be older `non grads`show up.

[Zandee]

The flack is not from my child. It is from adults in the community who have grown up with the tradition of grad kidnappings and grad campouts who argue the validity and necessity of these events as part of "the grad experience." The campout is supposedly scheduled for Tues. night. My child will not be there and we have discussed the reasons why in a mature way. My child has accepted this decision. I am not a fool. I know it is not the popular decision. However, I do find it disturbing when adults (neighbors and colleagues) in the area argue the importance of these very high risk campouts.

[mexi cali]

Instead of trying to push 'dry grad' activities on kids....realize that kids are kids and most will drink and do stupid things...again...all part of growing up and learning.

And therein lies the rub. You my friend are saying that you're willing to roll the dice with your kids. You're betting that they won't be the ones who get hurt. Or raped. Or wind up in the hospital overdosed or stupid drunk. Cuz ur kids are the best. They're the responsible ones in the group of idiots.

I can accept stupid. I can't accept dangerous and I can't accept reckless. I was one of these kids and attended many of these parties. The crap that I saw. Back then, you said nothing because you just didn't.

Now I'm a parent and I don't really care what anyone else has to say. I know what happens at these gatherings and I applaud any parent who takes the stand to not let their kids attend.

Just because most of us were stupid, why in hell would you expose your kids to a group of inexperienced, over confident, under cautious, thinking with their privates and no thought to consequences, loaded and unsupervised morons. What fun! A life time of memories just because we did it.

I guess no one here has any horror stories from "back in the day". I do. It happens. It happens every year, all the time. We just don't hear about it.

But the parents of the kids who are involved, they hear about it.

But what the hell! They're just gonna do it anyway.

whatever.

[OnTheRoadAgain]

If parents are so concerned that life is that much more dangerous today....get involved instead of demanding that your child miss out on the entire grad experience.
Instead of trying to push 'dry grad' activities on kids....realize that kids are kids and most will drink and do stupid things...again...all part of growing up and learning.
Do what the parents in many AB towns have done for many years.....attend their grad parties. Make sure none of them drive. Make sure no 'outsiders' get involved. Make sure everyone is safe.
Don't hover over them...don't try to stop them from having fun or drinking....just be there...in the background...making sure everyone has a safe night and safe way home.

Or, get involved in a non-alcholic, non-drug event (dry after-grad) for the grads. These things only happen with parent involvement.
Realizing kids will be kids and leaving it at that does nothing to keep them safe, especially while partaking in drugs and alcohol, and especially when excited and exhausted from exams and grad celebrations.
The parents in Alberta (similar in BC and all provinces) hold huge liabiity when offering after grad activities to the student body. School boards make real sure these days to announce their non-involvement.
There is no making sure no outsiders become involved in 'safe grads' where alcohol is allowed. Yes, stop them from drinking if you are liable for their safety, and you do take on this liability when allowing minors to consume alcohol under your watch.

[Queen K]

The way social media is set up these days, there is a guarantee a whole mess of people will show up at these grad parties whom do not for the life of them give a danm about your kids, their good time or getting out safely.

It's a double edged sword right?

[FreeRights]

And therein lies the rub. You my friend are saying that you're willing to roll the dice with your kids. You're betting that they won't be the ones who get hurt. Or raped. Or wind up in the hospital overdosed or stupid drunk. Cuz ur kids are the best. They're the responsible ones in the group of idiots.

I can accept stupid. I can't accept dangerous and I can't accept reckless. I was one of these kids and attended many of these parties. The crap that I saw. Back then, you said nothing because you just didn't.

Now I'm a parent and I don't really care what anyone else has to say. I know what happens at these gatherings and I applaud any parent who takes the stand to not let their kids attend.

Just because most of us were stupid, why in hell would you expose your kids to a group of inexperienced, over confident, under cautious, thinking with their privates and no thought to consequences, loaded and unsupervised morons. What fun! A life time of memories just because we did it.

I guess no one here has any horror stories from "back in the day". I do. It happens. It happens every year, all the time. We just don't hear about it.

But the parents of the kids who are involved, they hear about it.

But what the hell! They're just gonna do it anyway.

whatever.

This is where it gets complicated. Yes, these places do offer a risk, but on the other hand, if your kids are graduating it may be time to let them make some decisions for themselves. They will be working and adults in a few years, and if they aren't responsible enough now to make a simple decision by themselves...

Its the whole balance of taking care of your kids and looking out for them, while at the same time let them be responsible and actually make decisions for themselves. They are at the age that they can make decisions and be accountable for their actions.

[OnTheRoadAgain]

Grad camp outs have been a tradition for MBSS and, less recently, George Pringle for a very long tim. Ages, in fact.

With that said, it's still a horrible idea.

When I gradded, some parents opened up their house for friends and yes, the kids would drink. But they'd do so in the safety and under the supervision of an adult. Which is obviously much better than out in the middle of nowhere.

And this is the harm reduction thinking that parents took on responsibility for when they allow minors to drink alcohol under their watch.
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-c ... party.html

[OnTheRoadAgain]

I'm not a parent, so perhaps I can't offer great advice. However, my take is that bush/grad parties these days ARE NOT how they were when I graduated (10+ years ago) and older.

Yes, we got drunk, yes there were a few fist fights and yes, I'm sure some people drove home drunk. However, is it just me, or are kids these days more reckless? It seems after these types of events there is always stabbings, murders, overdoses, rapes or etc... these types of things NEVER happened at any of the parties I attended. What is with kids these days?

What about a compromise with your child? You will drive them there and pick them up at YOUR set time? That way, they get to have a little fun with their friends (as many of us have done when we were young), but then you know they are safe at home at the end of the night (or beginning of the morning).

Kids today are just as invincible as kids of decades gone by. That's why kids have parents, who can see around those tricky corners the youth cannot see for themselves.

[OnTheRoadAgain]

I have no idea if they're worse or not.
I'm an MBSS grad went to the grad campout (mid 80's) Had a blast, but then again I stayed sober (actually always am)
Were we more mature back then? dunno all I know is that we were fully aware that we were nearly adults.

This is the avenue that led parents to the harm reduction thinking of supervising drinking parties for their kids.
They are almost adult age anyways (which for consuming alcohol is 19, not 17 or 18 so not almost to some standards);
They are going to do it anyways, so they might as well do it under my watch, so I know they are safe (or under our watch as in the larger aftergrad parties where the whole student body is invited, as opposed to private house parties. In the larger groups, the adults feel even more of a sense of control, because there are more of them (not to mention hundreds of additional teenagers, not all of whom are grads, some dates as young as 14 or 15).

The bush parties are never supervised by responsible adults, are rarely supervised by responsible non-drinking young attendees, and when they are, those individuals are far outnumbered by the amount of serious partiers, which makes it difficult to engage in prevention strategies. Cell phone service is not always available where the parties occur.

[OnTheRoadAgain]

Deny them going to a party. Do not teach responsibility. Teach "abstinence".

Then next year when they are in college - they can go to all the bars they want and drink their faces off. Good thing you saved them for a few months 'more".

Instead of knowing what a responsible adult does in terms of drinking and enjoying social gatherings and having a ADULT parent/child relationship - they will know to lie, deceive and go around you in adult life.

My parents drove my sister and picked her up from one of these parties about 7 years ago. Designated Driver for all her friends - terrible I know. It would have been much smarter to deny her and in turn let her lie about her evening and go up to the bush and possibly get a ride home with a drunk. They also drove her up there so they knew where it was for safety, and to be a part of her adult life because 6 months later she was living in Calgary all on her own and could go to any "party" she wished.

The bush parties my dad went to in the 70's - people used to throw boxes of .22 shells in the fire as a surprise for party goers "for fun". Hiding M80 firecrackers in peoples cigarettes. Knife fights and drag racing muscle cars drunk off your rocker was "the thing" to do. Saying "bush parties are worse now" is pretty amusing.

This is also a part of the harm reduction thinking - to teach them to drink responsibly before they are of legal age.
This is perfectly legal in your home, where you can serve alcohol to your own minor under your watch; it is not legal for another parent to take over your legal responsibility in this regard.

Caution, this sets up potential of helping an already addiction inclined individual to become dependent early.
Some of them too, go off to college and drink their faces off.

An adult like relationship with your kids doesn't mean you must promote the idea that they can't have fun or celebrate without alcohol, unless you, yourself are that way inclined. Drinking responsibly is learned by kids mostly by their parent's example. Drinking irresponsibly is most often learned by the examples of their peers.

Driving youth to bush parties is not responsible, it is a parent's reaction to fear of the unknown, and the idea that 'they're going to do it anyways, so I'll make sure they're safe by driving them. Meanwhile, there are a miriad of other tragic events that could happen in the time between those two safe rides there, and back home.

[OnTheRoadAgain]

This is where it gets complicated. Yes, these places do offer a risk, but on the other hand, if your kids are graduating it may be time to let them make some decisions for themselves. They will be working and adults in a few years, and if they aren't responsible enough now to make a simple decision by themselves...

Its the whole balance of taking care of your kids and looking out for them, while at the same time let them be responsible and actually make decisions for themselves. They are at the age that they can make decisions and be accountable for their actions.

It's actually not too complicated if you look at the legalities, and the liabilities. It gets resl simple then.
Maybe graduation day isn't the exact day that all kids are ready to make such decisions as to break the law, even with their parents' permission, just because they feel they have the 'right of passage' to do so simply because they graduated high school and they 'need to party'.
If they're smart and lucky at grad time (and other party times) , they will still be learning lots during those long years while they are working adults.

If you're saying that part of being a responsible parent is allowing your kids to go off and break the laws when it suits their desires, that they should just allow their kids to make these decisions on their own, and further that they should make these decisions with their knowledge and permission, consent, encouragement or sponsorship, I'm not so sure that makes a responsible parent. Responsible and irresponsible parents show which one they are through their actions, similar to the kids.

Character is how you behave when nobody's watching. We are constantly teaching our kids about our own characters.

[OnTheRoadAgain]

Last year when my neighbours' son was in grade 12, and they allowed him to have a couple parties in their back yard on the same nights as a couple of the big grad parties, I think in the Spring and one just before or in the first week of school? It was an alternative to attending for him and his friends, and it was a non-drinking event. He had to talk to all the neighbours and explain what he was doing and why. He also said that although they would try and keep it down they were a group of teens and there might be some noise past the bylaw time of 11pm. They had a small fire, there were tents all over the back yard and they appeared to have a great time. They really did keep the noise down and it seemed to have a great time. This might be an alternative for parents.

That is a respectful group of teens celebrating their milestone of graduation.
That is a responsible parent's reaction to "they're going to do it anyways".
That parent taught their kid to compromise. That is a valuable tool to learn through experience.