Panhandlers at Staples

[FreeRights]

You are cornered,,, they come right to your car door as you are getting out, or wait you out till you get out of your car like I have seen them do many times to people, mostly wonmen. Now if you had a women in yer life this Would concern you, trust me on that. Its called cornering. They are not standing back at all. I am glad Oxy had the brains you were looking for, the rest here get it so seems you get yer pick even. If you read all the way back you will see whats being said, as above, two words,,, get lost! Its that easy. They are dirty bums and no one wants them hanging around their cars. Some have even said they are afraid not to give for fear while they are in the store these bums will key the car for not giving them money.

I understand your point, but the woman argument doesn't apply here. Gender is irrelevant in this case, and it is as much a concern for males as it is for females.

I can see that this type of panhandling is annoying, although very legal, but I think it also outlines another major flaw in our society: an average person's apparent lack of self esteem and confidence. These people are not cornering you. If a person is unable to simply ask somebody to move or get out of the way, that is a very bad place to be.

Somebody is too close to your door? Ask them to move. Yes, it's annoying, but I guarantee that this easy verbal solution would deal with the vast majority of these panhandlers "cornering" you.

[Roadster]

I realize its a concern for both, since we have had a young man punched out here in Kelowna I think last year, there was a thread about it, my point is they shouldnt be near the cars at all. As said by me and another, they saw what car you got out of, it leaves you to wonder, will they key my car for saying no? So some people will feel pressured to give to them when its not in their norm to do so. These people are smart, they could be working people instead of riding or walking around parking lots. Argue my point all you like, I stand by it, they shouldnt be pestering strangers for what they could make on their own, or go sit by the building and let people drop money if they want to and quit chasing around for it.
So thanks anyway for agreeing with me that its a concern, it should be dealt with and stopped.

[FreeRights]

I realize its a concern for both, since we have had a young man punched out here in Kelowna I think last year, there was a thread about it, my point is they shouldnt be near the cars at all. As said by me and another, they saw what car you got out of, it leaves you to wonder, will they key my car for saying no? So some people will feel pressured to give to them when its not in their norm to do so. These people are smart, they could be working people instead of riding or walking around parking lots. Argue my point all you like, I stand by it, they shouldnt be pestering strangers for what they could make on their own, or go sit by the building and let people drop money if they want to and quit chasing around for it.
So thanks anyway for agreeing with me that its a concern, it should be dealt with and stopped.

While I also agree that they shouldn't be allowed to be by your car, there isn't and will never be any law against it. After all, while your car is your property, the parking lot that it is on and is around is not.

I understand your point, and it would be nice in a perfect world, but the fact is, it's unrealistic and will never happen. It is unfair to assume that these people are right minded and could work on their own - tons of them have severe mental issues that they should be hospitalized for, and others have severe drug problems that they should be in rehab for, but on both notes, the government isn't able to do more for them. Then of course, there are others who are right minded and fit and should be working.

Whatever the case, I'd prefer someone asking me once a day for money, with me responding no each time, than that same person resorting to theft.

[brounal]

I ran into the same two at Canadian tire.
I gave them a toonie maybe it was even couple of toonies.They did thank me! LOL
I usually give people like this a buck or two almost never give them 5 bucks or any paper money.
Its a fine line. I think with some of these idiots if you give them something there is maybe less chance they will rob you and that would be a lot worse. They could have a knife,gun who knows what ,laws on weapons are pretty darn weak ,should be like 2 years mandatory jail time for any criminal caught with an illegal weapon. And sadly even though I have no criminal record and have my license to own handguns am not allowed of course to carry one around with me like say in states like Texas.
And my Kung Fu is not that good. So in my exeperience I find giving these people some change is probably a good idea. Its
harder for someone to be nasty to someone that has been nice to them.

I don't like the panhandlers especially scammy ones like this. I like it better the ones that are playing their guitar and sitting there more passive types not con artist scam story types. And for sure don't like aggressive threatening types. I am pretty tough looking guy am old 54 but am 5ft 6 and stocky and people generally don't try much on me. I have never been robbed.Been assaulted few times when young and foolilsh back in Regina but not seriously.

I think a better solution needs to be found for the homeless and the drug addicts. The city has a pretty good amount of both.
I think the drug addicts should be hassled,and if in possession of hard drugs should be given choice jail or rehab program. I think they should legalize marijuana ,just like alcohol prohibition don't work.

As for the homeless other places and countries have ways and ideas that seem to work not too bad. Ignore these problems and they generally get worse. Now of course the worst type of thing is people that are capable of working that are too lazy and just try this crock of crap lines on you. It does get annoying.

[Roadster]

While I also agree that they shouldn't be allowed to be by your car, there isn't and will never be any law against it. After all, while your car is your property, the parking lot that it is on and is around is not.

I understand your point, and it would be nice in a perfect world, but the fact is, it's unrealistic and will never happen. It is unfair to assume that these people are right minded and could work on their own - tons of them have severe mental issues that they should be hospitalized for, and others have severe drug problems that they should be in rehab for, but on both notes, the government isn't able to do more for them. Then of course, there are others who are right minded and fit and should be working.

Whatever the case, I'd prefer someone asking me once a day for money, with me responding no each time, than that same person resorting to theft.

you say its not against the law but it would be in the stores best interest to rid their parking lots of these bums. I also think if the city can start charging residents for parking infront of their own houses they can charge these bums for the use of these parking lots for their scummy business. Imagine if they took a percentage off these people,,, wow, money to be had there. They make more then you and I just for pressuring people to Pay them as said above by brounal,,, he/she gives to them because its better then having them rob you. Which is the feeling you get when they are standing by your car, should you say no and go into the store? Hmmmm some day not so far away we will be hearing about that happening.
Its best they sit at the building and wait for what falls if they cant get a job,,, its all drugs and booze, they smell of it and I wont pay for it. Some of them probably cant get a job because they do drugs and booze so thats why they are there, making tax free bucks instead, so they can party their heads off, take a shower and get a real job, be sober for a day, a week and work for your living.
I think if we all got on the city to do something we would see less of this if any. Rules are needed. Soon before another gets smacked for saying no or a car does get keyed or robbed. We have parking lot volenteer drivers working for the police at Christmas looking for car theives, why not all year reporting these people and the police ridding us of them? Bet they'd find lots of drugs to seize and some untaxable dollars to confiscate not to mention the nice knife in a holster I saw on the guy on his bike last year at Capri. He looked freaky enough to use it too, be aware of these people, they may not be Actually travelling light as it looks if you get my drift. Many of them have a pack sack even tho they dont live far from where you see them bumming.
There is a spot down near Bernard where a bunch of them live in a rooming house with flags and blankets for curtains at the back of a free parking area. They come out of that house and start bumming for smokes and money by the time they walk half way across that parking lot. I watched em coming in and out while waiting for someone two years in a row now and also a group going into the house, back packs and dirty hoodies and jeans,,, Right across from the H&R tax building. The guy who approached us still had bed head,,, he was looking for his free morning smoke,,, I shoulda got him his free morning coffee too. I said, "Not today buddy, got nothin free for ya" but we werent leaving our car so I wasnt worried about him doing damage.

[FreeRights]

you say its not against the law but it would be in the stores best interest to rid their parking lots of these bums. I also think if the city can start charging residents for parking infront of their own houses they can charge these bums for the use of these parking lots for their scummy business.

The difference here is, the area out front of their house is city property. A parking lot is private property.

Sure, an owner of a parking lot could set a toll for its' use, but you cannot discriminate against the homeless, so it would end up applying to all.

he/she gives to them because its better then having them rob you. Which is the feeling you get when they are standing by your car, should you say no and go into the store? Hmmmm some day not so far away we will be hearing about that happening.

I don't think that's a fair assumption. You could say that they're all criminals, but I could just as easily say that they panhandle to avoid being a criminal.

As well, you aren't less likely to be robbed if you give someone money. Generally, if they ask for money, that is all they want. However, if a person intends to rob you, they may ask for money and use the distraction of you getting the money to rob or assault you. That is extremely rare, and I don't even recall hearing a single report of that in Kelowna.

Its best they sit at the building and wait for what falls if they cant get a job,,, its all drugs and booze, they smell of it and I wont pay for it. Some of them probably cant get a job because they do drugs and booze so thats why they are there, making tax free bucks instead, so they can party their heads off, take a shower and get a real job, be sober for a day, a week and work for your living.

I think you're downplaying the seriousness of the homeless problem. A lot of people who are there don't want to be, and between drugs and mental illness, have no choice.

I think if we all got on the city to do something we would see less of this if any. Rules are needed. Soon before another gets smacked for saying no or a car does get keyed or robbed. We have parking lot volenteer drivers working for the police at Christmas looking for car theives, why not all year reporting these people and the police ridding us of them? Bet they'd find lots of drugs to seize and some untaxable dollars to confiscate not to mention the nice knife in a holster I saw on the guy on his bike last year at Capri. He looked freaky enough to use it too, be aware of these people, they may not be Actually travelling light as it looks if you get my drift. Many of them have a pack sack even tho they dont live far from where you see them bumming.

Police deal with reported car thieves because .... they are car thieves. That's illegal.
These Christmas volunteers could report panhandlers, but it's still not illegal. So the police would - and should - take little to no action at all.

A lot of what you're saying appears to stem from an irrational fear of these people, which I suspect may come from being unused to it. I know a lot of people who have lived in Kelowna for decades are not used to this level of panhandling, while it is commonplace in a larger city.

Having done loss prevention in Kelowna in the past, I would argue that there is a considerably higher amount of organized thieves who also use violence to support their illegal activity than there are homeless people stealing. The likelihood of a homeless person using a knife on you is the same as a regular person using a knife on you. They're either aggressive, or they aren't. Assuming they all are intending to rob you with the machete that's probably in their backpack is an unhealthy fear to live by day to day.

Do note that I'm not telling you that you're wrong. This is a problem in the Kelowna area that's only a handful of years old, and people are not used to it yet.

[mechanic_virus]

Undesirables. Wastes of skin. No good useless skids. Drunks. Druggies. Dirty bums. Idiots.

These are all words that have been used in this thread to describe people. Community members. My neighbours. Your neighbours.

Life is about surviving, and we all do the best we can. Some of us have more stacked up against us than others. Mental illness, addiction, poverty, brain injury, social stigma... I find it disgusting that there are people in my community who are regarded as less than human. And then there's the over-simplified answer of "get a job". How much abuse can one person take? The whole community thinks you're scum, you hear it all the time. Doors are slammed in your face everywhere you turn, nobody has any idea of the factors that have taken their toll on your life, you lack support and compassion... I'm sure the motivation to go job hunting and face further rejection is right there.

You don't have to give people money. But you also don't have to trash talk or be rude to people who have been kicked so many times already. One could argue that you're perpetuating the problem even more by dehumanising them, making them feel worthless. If you're told something, or are treated in some way, enough times, you start to believe it. Those words become your identity.

There was some talk about the 30K Club. Yes, the money is going to women and children - directly and indirectly. It's going to the whole community. It connects people with the services they need to move from a place of chaos to stability. It puts people in housing so they are not out on the streets. It addresses dental issues, so that fewer people will be in our emergency rooms with horrible infections. It helps people get into treatment programs. It alleviates the desperation that drives people to commit crimes. You put it down before knowing anything about it. It appears you do the same to people. But here's some info: http://www.30kclub.com/our-story/

I must say, I found both disgust and humour in Brounal's comment: "I think the drug addicts should be hassled,and if in possession of hard drugs should be given choice jail or rehab program. I think they should legalize marijuana ,just like alcohol prohibition don't work." Nobody should be "hassled". Mandatory treatment programs don't work, and jail worsens the problem by displacing people, making them unemployable, putting their housing in jeopardy, exposing them to an environment that teaches them survival skills that are even less acceptable in communities, and more. You say prohibition doesn't work when it comes to alcohol and marijuana. Newsflash: It isn't working with other drugs, either.

[Roadster]

To FreeRifgts "thats all they want",,, when I Want money I go make money
"Fear"? No I hate them bugging me for what I worked for when they are younger and more able then even I am.
Homeless? Not likely, the homeless are not panhandlers like these people are. There is a difference. These people are career beggers, its what they do to gain tax free money and trust me, they have make money then you do, they make more then most of us do. Thats only being homeless if they choose a tent over an apartment or house and yes, drugs will do that to some but most of these "bus pass" needy people actually live right here in Kelowna in rooming houses. Boy do they see you coming :dyinglaughing:

[FreeRights]

To FreeRifgts "thats all they want",,, when I Want money I go make money
"Fear"? No I hate them bugging me for what I worked for when they are younger and more able then even I am.
Homeless? Not likely, the homeless are not panhandlers like these people are. There is a difference. These people are career beggers, its what they do to gain tax free money and trust me, they have make money then you do, they make more then most of us do. Thats only being homeless if they choose a tent over an apartment or house and yes, drugs will do that to some but most of these "bus pass" needy people actually live right here in Kelowna in rooming houses. Boy do they see you coming :dyinglaughing:

Through my experience, I heavily disagree with you. In fact, I think you're claims are factually wrong.

Most panhandlers are exactly what they look like - poor people who ask for money. Some are scheming people who know they can make a lot of money that way, but the majority of them are people who are unable to (physically or psychologically) work.

Do I think we should give them money? Absolutely not. Canada offers a number of resources for these people to get help.

With that said, I still believe that your perspective of it is fundamentally wrong. I agree that you are probably correct about a number of them, but I don't agree that "most" live in boarding houses.

[Hmmm]

Undesirables. Wastes of skin. No good useless skids. Drunks. Druggies. Dirty bums. Idiots.

These are all words that have been used in this thread to describe people. Community members. My neighbours. Your neighbours.

Life is about surviving, and we all do the best we can. Some of us have more stacked up against us than others. Mental illness, addiction, poverty, brain injury, social stigma... I find it disgusting that there are people in my community who are regarded as less than human. And then there's the over-simplified answer of "get a job". How much abuse can one person take? The whole community thinks you're scum, you hear it all the time. Doors are slammed in your face everywhere you turn, nobody has any idea of the factors that have taken their toll on your life, you lack support and compassion... I'm sure the motivation to go job hunting and face further rejection is right there.

You don't have to give people money. But you also don't have to trash talk or be rude to people who have been kicked so many times already. One could argue that you're perpetuating the problem even more by dehumanising them, making them feel worthless. If you're told something, or are treated in some way, enough times, you start to believe it. Those words become your identity.

There was some talk about the 30K Club. Yes, the money is going to women and children - directly and indirectly. It's going to the whole community. It connects people with the services they need to move from a place of chaos to stability. It puts people in housing so they are not out on the streets. It addresses dental issues, so that fewer people will be in our emergency rooms with horrible infections. It helps people get into treatment programs. It alleviates the desperation that drives people to commit crimes. You put it down before knowing anything about it. It appears you do the same to people. But here's some info: http://www.30kclub.com/our-story/

I must say, I found both disgust and humour in Brounal's comment: "I think the drug addicts should be hassled,and if in possession of hard drugs should be given choice jail or rehab program. I think they should legalize marijuana ,just like alcohol prohibition don't work." Nobody should be "hassled". Mandatory treatment programs don't work, and jail worsens the problem by displacing people, making them unemployable, putting their housing in jeopardy, exposing them to an environment that teaches them survival skills that are even less acceptable in communities, and more. You say prohibition doesn't work when it comes to alcohol and marijuana. Newsflash: It isn't working with other drugs, either.

Maybe getting all those tattoo's and piercings wasn't such a smart move after all. Respectable looking is a standard and should be considered.

Lets face it the majority of these types you described have the not respectable look. You don't need much money at all to look decent, you just need to want to. This of course is not the answer to the handicapped who in most cases have much more to over come than looking respectable can cure. And I'm not saying they dont look ok, I'm referring to the outcast look many young, non thinkers ahead in there life look.

[Hmmm]

Do you understand that the world does not revolve around you and your do whatever it takes, ruin as many people's lives, so long as you can make a name for yourself as an investigatory journalist, no matter how many friends you lose or people you leave dead and bloodied along the way, just so long so you can make a name for yourself as an investigatory journalist, no matter how many friends you lose or people you leave dead and bloodied and dying along the way?

[Roadster]

Sure FreeRights, but if you ask a real panhandler,,, boyfriend, girldfriend situation who now work and live in Kelowna,,, most of them choose to look homeless, as they did, part of the act and how money comes to them. They even went into the states to do some of their "pan" time in train stations and malls. They were never really "homeless", they took up residence in bording houses and tents where needed. They settled to a job when panhandling and living on the edge was getting rough on them. Most they met along the way were not "really" homeless either but by choice didnt have a real home to call home. Its a travelling thing in most cases, town to town as they are pushed on or find interest to travel to. Homeless dont do that,,, they are just Homeless and usually they dont run parking lots like these people who are actually smarter then you and me and have chosen the tax free adventurous way of life or are on drugs which is just another path known on panhandling, point being, none of them work for their buck and when they come after us for money now as they have been its not right. This couple never did that, they sat along walls watching the foot traffic asking for what might fall and that is how it should be. I asked how they could live like that, they said it was fun, they never pushed people like is being done now and they made a lot of cash in some of the places they went to. They were both from here and now live here again. Seriously man they got you figured out. Its either a way of life or a need for drugs. Either way thy are now aggressive about it by going aftr people rather then waiting where they can be seen and given to or not given to. Now people feel they better for fear of a keying or even being pushed around over it. Which has happened.

[mechanic_virus]

Maybe getting all those tattoo's and piercings wasn't such a smart move after all. Respectable looking is a standard and should be considered.

Lets face it the majority of these types you described have the not respectable look. You don't need much money at all to look decent, you just need to want to. This of course is not the answer to the handicapped who in most cases have much more to over come than looking respectable can cure. And I'm not saying they dont look ok, I'm referring to the outcast look many young, non thinkers ahead in there life look.

You quoted me, but I don't see your response having much to do with my post. I didn't describe any "types", nor did I say anything about physical appearance. My point is that we're all humans, and should treat one another as such. Basically, quit the name calling. Don't be rude. You know, the stuff we learned from Bambi. A person does not need to dress a certain way for me to treat them with dignity. I do not at all times look "respectable", but my appearance does not dictate the person I am. And I have met a number of people who look/dress "respectable" on the outside, but have a lot of ugliness on the inside.

[grammafreddy]

And I have met a number of people who look/dress "respectable" on the outside, but have a lot of ugliness on the inside.

This is a truth.

[Hmmm]

And I have met a number of people who look/dress "respectable" on the outside, but have a lot of ugliness on the inside.

They're probably working though or could get a job. I agree the exterior is not the person, but there was a day when you couldn't walk around looking like a heavy metal rock star and get a real job. I know thats changing some what but the idea is still the same. Looking decent, clean and not smelly is always a smart idea if you are looking for work. Go ahead and argue that. I won't respond to anything but "thats true", because it is 100% true.