Kelowna City Council permanently close Ellis to heavy trucks

[maxx]

It's not up to the City though but time will tell if it happens.

The city needs to convince the Ministry of Transportation to (please forgive the pun) green-light the changes to the Gordon/Harvey intersection - changes that would include a longer left-hand turn bay 'northbound' and the installation of the left-hand turn light itself.

[Fancy]

That was stated in the article as well as this:

Council will review a report from the Transportation and Mobility Engineering Traffic Technician Monday on the potential of moving the truck route from Ellis Street to Gordon Drive.

While any change to the truck route would have to be agreed to by the provincial Ministry of Transportation and Infrastructure discussions between the city and the province have been going on.

Staff are asking that those talks be allowed to continue.

[Cumungala]

I took a few minutes to measure the two different routes to the sawmill using Google Earth. The Distance from the intersection of Ellis and Harvey to the sawmill using Ellis street is about 2km. The Distance from the intersection of Ellis and Harvey to the sawmill using Gordon and Clement is almost 4.5km. Trucks heading to the sawmill would have more than twice as far to go if approaching Kelowna from the West. If the route did change to Gordon, I imagine that trucks would head back over using Clement instead of Weddell.

Trucks approaching from the East though heading for the sawmill would have pretty much the same distance for both routes.

Overall, I think the city has much bigger priorities than trying to get this truck route moved. How about a new bypass? Then trucks wont have to go through downtown at all.

[SurplusElect]

The Distance from the intersection of Ellis and Harvey to the sawmill using Ellis street is about 2km. The Distance from the intersection of Ellis and Harvey to the sawmill using Gordon and Clement is almost 4.5km

A city doesn't allow huge trucks to go barreling through downtown cores.

It's loud, dangerous and the weight hastily damages infrastructure (that we are currently upgrading).

Most larger cities that have nice downtown's have truck routes that could require a truck driver to cover 10 times that distance if not further.

[anniekate]

most cities do not have an industrial area at one end of their "nice downtowns" either

[Gixxer]

This detour will add another 10 to 15 minutes travel time to the mill. Where they get 5 from is beyond me.

[Cumungala]

I wonder if the city has considered Richter Street. If the route was moved to Richter, then it would only be .5km longer than Ellis to get to the mill and about 2km shorter than Gordon. That way, trucks wouldn't be slicing right through the middle of downtown and they wouldnt have to go as far as Gordon. Ethel Street is out of the question though obviously because it is almost as far as using Gordon and is a much quieter street.

[LordEd]

I went for a walk along Ellis because I had a bit of time waiting and prefer to have real experience when arguing in here. They don't need to move trucks from Ellis for 'safety' reasons. They need a handful of bylaw officers standing around and handing out jaywalking tickets.

There were 4-5 heavy vehicles down the road at various times on my walk, but more pedestrians with no concept of how a crosswalk works.

I was successfully able to cross the road multiple times at intersections with no fear of injury.

Those claiming 'safety' as an issue are in dire need of mothers holding their hands along a road. Those claiming 'noise' as an issue will be looking to move the 'noisy' bus circle next.

[LordEd]

I wonder if the city has considered Richter Street.

Richter from Bernard going north is significantly residential. Those houses have been there a long time. Why should they have to be given the truck route over the group of condo owners who moved onto the existing route?

[Otter]

In the not too distant future, that sawmill will be closing down forever. Why go to all the expense and angst moving the "truck route" when it will no longer be a problem in a very short time.

If it's only the condo owners that are upset about the trucks along Ellis, then they should have thought about that before they bought a condo there. I'm on and around Ellis every working day and do not find the logging (or other) trucks a problem. All you have to do is remember that they can't stop on a dime, that the drivers are professionals and you are probably safer with them than some kid in a sports car playing with his Iphone, and it's only a matter of time before those particular trucks are gone.

As for moving the truck route to Gordon, Richter, or even Ethel, those are old, established neighbourhoods with children, elders, and lots of other folk who live, work, and walk along those streets every day. Why should not only their comfort level but also they health and very lives be put at risk so some rich, non-resident condo owners can sit out on their balconies on the odd week-end when they're in town?

Doesn't seem quite fair to me.

[LoneWolf_53]

You echo my sentiments completely where this matter is concerned Otter.

To me there always needs to be prior consideration given to those who were in the area first, and it's simply not right to ignore the impact on long established residential areas, simply so a few artsy fartsy pompous johnny come latelys can capitalize on their investment, when they purchased in an area zoned as commercial.

The whole danger argument is ridiculous, given that I can't recall any reports of incidents involving commercial transports on Ellis, though there have been many in which passenger vehicles played the lead role.

I'd have to ask, are the lives of residents who live on Gordon Drive and Clement any less valuable? I mean if safety is the reason for considering a change, how is safety improved by simply moving the percieved problem from one street to another?

Those same 400 or so trucks a day still have to navigate past a lot of private residences, and in fact more of them, if they are forced to use Gordon and Clement.

The rationale simply doesn't hold up under scrutiny, and just because a goose and shyster lawyer signed a petition hardly constitutes justifiable cause to implement a change.

I think north end industrial business operators, who will have to cover the extra costs involved should a change be made, should send a bill to the proponents of the plan. After all it's not their fault the city does an about face regarding zoning and use of an area.

[Cumungala]

In the not too distant future, that sawmill will be closing down forever. Why go to all the expense and angst moving the "truck route" when it will no longer be a problem in a very short time.

Why do you think the sawmill will be closing in a very short time? I wouldn't be surprised if its still open in another 20 years.

[Otter]

[quote="Cumungala Why do you think the sawmill will be closing in a very short time? I wouldn't be surprised if its still open in another 20 years.[/quote]

Go here: <http://www.tolko.com/index.php/who-we-are/news/tolko-kelowna-veneer-to-permanently-close>

Yes, it does say that they are "committed" to a long term plan, but as trees become more difficult to access and the various insects increase in their destruction of the local forests, it will soon become too expensive for Tolko to maintain this plant. Look around the province and see how many mills have closed and how many have reduced output and employees.

Also, that piece of property is Prime real estate with a big capital P. It's lakefront with lovely views of the mounatins across the lake, close to downtown, recreational areas, and everything else that makes developers drool. It wouldn't take much for the company to accept a generous offer from some foreign investor to get rid of the high-priced union employees and sell out.

It's only a matter of time and I doubt very much that that timespan is twenty years.

[Gixxer]

The old "mill will be closing" rumor has been going around for years.

Its not closing anytime soon.

[cv23]

Also, that piece of property is Prime real estate with a big capital P. It's lakefront with lovely views of the mounatins across the lake, close to downtown, recreational areas, and everything else that makes developers drool. It wouldn't take much for the company to accept a generous offer from some foreign investor to get rid of the high-priced union employees and sell out.

There also won't be much left of that generous offer after they do the environmental cleanup on the site.