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Re: Kelowna City Council permanently close Ellis to heavy tr
Posted: Nov 21st, 2012, 12:10 pm
by maxx
cv23 wrote:maxx wrote:I think moving the truck route to Gordon drive, away from the downtown core is a great idea that fits very well into the city's long-term strategy for growth.
What about any chances of future growth on Gordon Dr? Do those residents deserve less consideration than those who live downtown?
Why not permanently move the truck route to Clement which is what that road was created for?
As I tend to agree with you, moving the truck route to Spall Road would be an even tougher sell because it's just that much further. Granted, the commercial traffic coming in/heading out of town from/to the north should be using Spall exclusively.
Re: Kelowna City Council permanently close Ellis to heavy tr
Posted: Nov 21st, 2012, 12:13 pm
by maxx
cv23 wrote:maxx wrote:I think moving the truck route to Gordon drive, away from the downtown core is a great idea that fits very well into the city's long-term strategy for growth.
What about any chances of future growth on Gordon Dr? Do those residents deserve less consideration than those who live downtown?
Why not permanently move the truck route to Clement which is what that road was created for?
From the conversations I've had with many over this issue, it has become clear that this isn't about those who live along Ellis.
It's actually about making good decisions for the city and making the downtown core more attractive to businesses and the people that frequent them.
Re: Kelowna City Council permanently close Ellis to heavy tr
Posted: Nov 21st, 2012, 12:24 pm
by grammafreddy
maxx wrote:
From the conversations I've had with many over this issue, it has become clear that this isn't about those who live along Ellis.
It's actually about making good decisions for the city and making the downtown core more attractive to businesses and the people that frequent them.
I'd say parking has always been and always will be one of the major reasons people do not want to live, work or play downtown. The city has adopted a "green agenda" and is attempting to force the general population out of their vehicles. The casualties in that agenda will be the downtown merchants and services.
The smart businesses and services will relocate to other areas because this new downtown plan has not addressed that parking issue and has reduced the number of parking spaces by changing it to parallel parking from angled parking and going from two lanes down to one lane in each direction. When a motorist is stopping the flow of traffic while they are parallel parking, the frustrations only increase, which will make more people not want to frequent the downtown merchants.
Re: Kelowna City Council permanently close Ellis to heavy tr
Posted: Nov 21st, 2012, 12:30 pm
by cv23
maxx wrote:It's actually about making good decisions for the city and making the downtown core more attractive to businesses and the people that frequent them.
So you agree this is about giving benefit to a small select group at the direct financial expense of all others in the community?
What about all the other "businesses and the people that frequent them" in Kelowna? Shouldn't truck traffic be diverted away from all Kelowna business areas to make them "more attractive"?
Personally I hope that the trucking companies start refusing deliveries to the Ellis St merchants and residences all together. It would be very interesting to see just how long they last without those "horrible trucks" delivering them the goods and services they expect and need in order to do business or just live.
Re: Kelowna City Council permanently close Ellis to heavy tr
Posted: Nov 21st, 2012, 1:52 pm
by Fancy
maxx wrote:It's actually about making good decisions for the city and making the downtown core more attractive to businesses and the people that frequent them.
Should not those same businesses be equally accessible? Too many businesses have closed their doors as it is and I wonder what the City intends to do to attract the consumer downtown.
Re: Kelowna City Council permanently close Ellis to heavy tr
Posted: Nov 21st, 2012, 2:07 pm
by maxx
cv23 wrote:maxx wrote:It's actually about making good decisions for the city and making the downtown core more attractive to businesses and the people that frequent them.
So you agree this is about giving benefit to a small select group at the direct financial expense of all others in the community?
What about all the other "businesses and the people that frequent them" in Kelowna? Shouldn't truck traffic be diverted away from all Kelowna business areas to make them "more attractive"?
No-one is diverting truck traffic away from downtown businesses.......do you even know how logistics works?
Personally I hope that the trucking companies start refusing deliveries to the Ellis St merchants and residences all together. It would be very interesting to see just how long they last without those "horrible trucks" delivering them the goods and services they expect and need in order to do business or just live.
So this is more about not wanting change for you. I'm sad for you.
Re: Kelowna City Council permanently close Ellis to heavy tr
Posted: Nov 21st, 2012, 2:09 pm
by maxx
Fancy wrote:maxx wrote:It's actually about making good decisions for the city and making the downtown core more attractive to businesses and the people that frequent them.
Should not those same businesses be equally accessible? Too many businesses have closed their doors as it is and I wonder what the City intends to do to attract the consumer downtown.
Sense, this make none.
Who said anything about selectively accessing businesses?
Re: Kelowna City Council permanently close Ellis to heavy tr
Posted: Nov 21st, 2012, 2:23 pm
by Fancy
I got caught up in the parking issue. It just seems that with the beautification being done, the attempt to remove truck traffic from Ellis, the whole area is more pedestrian friendly. That removes a lot of potential shoppers. "Equally accessible" applies to any shopping area.
Re: Kelowna City Council permanently close Ellis to heavy tr
Posted: Nov 21st, 2012, 2:25 pm
by LordEd
maxx wrote:So this is more about not wanting change for you. I'm sad for you.
This is about not wanting change for a group who feel entitled to it at the expense of others. The statement being made is "the 'cultural district' is too good for trucks. Trucks are dangerous and noisy. The people who live on Gordan aren't special so they can have that extra traffic instead.'
Re: Kelowna City Council permanently close Ellis to heavy tr
Posted: Nov 21st, 2012, 2:36 pm
by GordonH
Since those effected by increase of truck traffic along Gordon Dr & Clement Ave, once Ellis St is closed to this traffic. Should be aloud to be heard by the City of their possible objection to this proposal.
Since the only residences along Ellis truck route are between Doyle Ave & just north of Cawston Ave and only on the Eastside of Ellis.
IMO anyone jaywalking (is foolish) on any street/highway takes a risk of losing his/or her life, if benefit is worth the risk than go for it.
(just remember metal vehicle trumps flesh & blood)
Re: Kelowna City Council permanently close Ellis to heavy tr
Posted: Nov 21st, 2012, 2:37 pm
by LoneWolf_53
cv23 wrote: If those on Ellis want this change solely to benefit their living/operating conditions then it is those residents/business owners who should pay for any improvements through a tax increase. This should include ALL staff time spent on this, the cost of a left turn light and extended turning lane, all signage changes,etc, etc, etc. Seeing that the residents request will have a negative effect on the environment due to longer distances traveled by trucks some form of carbon tax should also apply to them. Further those who live on Gordon which soon must face the horrible conditions presently endured on Ellis should also get a tax reduction that those on Ellis should make up for through a further tax increase on their properties.
If the Ellis st residents want this then they, and only they, should pay for it but don't saddle the rest of Kelowna's residents with the costs associated in providing benefits to this small select group.
Not too often you and I agree on something, but I must say this time you nailed it.
Re: Kelowna City Council permanently close Ellis to heavy tr
Posted: Nov 21st, 2012, 2:40 pm
by LoneWolf_53
LordEd wrote:maxx wrote:So this is more about not wanting change for you. I'm sad for you.
This is about not wanting change for a group who feel entitled to it at the expense of others. The statement being made is "the 'cultural district' is too good for trucks. Trucks are dangerous and noisy. The people who live on Gordan aren't special so they can have that extra traffic instead.'
Well put LordEd, that's exactly what it's about, and why some of us feel it's ridiculous.
Re: Kelowna City Council permanently close Ellis to heavy tr
Posted: Nov 21st, 2012, 2:52 pm
by maxx
LordEd wrote:maxx wrote:So this is more about not wanting change for you. I'm sad for you.
This is about not wanting change for a group who feel entitled to it at the expense of others. The statement being made is "the 'cultural district' is too good for trucks. Trucks are dangerous and noisy. The people who live on Gordan aren't special so they can have that extra traffic instead.'
What group?
City council (who were elected to represent the best interests of the city)?
The business owners downtown (who should be getting our support more than they do now)?
The citizens that actually want Kelowna's downtown to be worth visiting?
People that want Kelowna to the place it can be?
Would you rather see the downtown shutter itself for good?
Change is good. Embrace the change.
Lead, follow or get out of the way........
Re: Kelowna City Council permanently close Ellis to heavy tr
Posted: Nov 21st, 2012, 2:57 pm
by Fancy
Change is not always good. It remains to be seen if Gordon will be the only route the trucks will take and if those residents will have a say.
Re: Kelowna City Council permanently close Ellis to heavy tr
Posted: Nov 21st, 2012, 2:59 pm
by Fancy
What's really going to be interesting is the changes to the traffic on Ellis when construction commences. I'll bet there will be plenty of complaints then.