Planning on skiing Big White this season?

[MrRusty]

Sun Peaks Population 7000 40 minutes to Kamloops
Silver Star Population 5600 25 km Vernon
Panorama Population 3000 18km from Invermer
Big White Population 260000 60km and 1 hour to Kelowna

All stats from Wikipedia

[theyeti]

the guy who sits there gets 500 up north the ambulance is going for closer to 1500 a day i believe but still seems like a small expense

[bigtdawg]

you sure missed alot of small communities that do not have ambulance service.
with 16000+ people solely flooding in to ski and party im sure they can kick in 3cents a day each extra to pay the $500 daily expense to have a private ambulance available.

Efficient transit to medical care is where the line has been drawn by the powers that be that run big white.

On a side note, I heard that the Shumann family divided silver star and big white up this past summer, and this is the reason for no longer having a dual mountain pass option. Wonder how many sick and injured rich people waiting for transit it will take for them them put the ambulance back up there?

[MrRusty]

And don't get me going about the Helicopter Thing... Private Enterprise for private profit. Go sell your snake oil some where else.
I Fly I know they fly in clear daylight, daytime. If they have a night rating, that's good, still has to have clear weather. Yes and infared navigation is marginal at best.
But I guess there's no fog at Big White
But I guess I should shut up as the "Stars Lovers" will get upset.

Funny, I've seen the privately owned air ambulances work very effectively in other places. Canadians (of which I proudly am one) as a whole have an aversion if someone whould potentially make a profit.
Ornge is Ontario is an example of air ambulance gone bad. Stars is a good example. Speak to anyone in Northern Alberta or NE BC who has used it, they will speak glowingly.
A helicopter only requires 1nm forward visibility and to be clear of cloud for daytime VFR, or less under certain conditions that an air ambulance would fall under. At night they need 3nm and clear of cloud.
I've never heard of infrared navigation. Heard of thermal imaging, nightsuns and such but never used for navigation. Can you please enlighten us all as to what infrared navigation is and is approved by TC under CARS?

Fill your boots, used on BC Ambulance Beechcraft King Air 350's
http://www.google.ca/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=& ... ow&cad=rja
And correct me if I'm wrong isn't Alberta a little flatter than BC ( I think hills in Alberta are called bunny hills) and have you ever heard of Spatial disorientation and add 3nm of fog...
That would be fun in a valley a 1/2 mile wide

[MrRusty]

And the whole point of this *bleep* for tat is air evacuation is not a viable alternative given the frequent weather changes at Big White. It's a tool only. Ambulances drive in any weather. Snow rain fog clouds white outs day night.
And by BC Ambulances own admissions they transport 2 to 3 patients a day, more than a lot of other communities of the same size with a full time staffed car

[dreamon]

[quote="MrRusty]Fill your boots, used on BC Ambulance Beechcraft King Air 350's
http://www.google.ca/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=& ... ow&cad=rja
And correct me if I'm wrong isn't Alberta a little flatter than BC ( I think hills in Alberta are called bunny hills) and have you ever heard of Spatial disorientation and add 3nm of fog...
That would be fun in a valley a 1/2 mile wide[/quote]

Neither the G1000 nor it's Avidyne equivalent are infrared navigation. Can't say I've ever heard of infrared navigation and aviation is a topic I know a little about and experienced. The G1000's MFD and PFD provide all sorts of data that used to be delivered with "steam" guages and analog instruments. They do also provide terrain information and TAWS. That is possibly what you are confusing with infrared navigation.

3nm of fog is an oxymoron. 3nm of forward visibility is lots in a helicopter. Fog is for example when you are forced down low, following a powerline for reference and can no longer see the next pole in front of you! Time to land and wait it out.

I am very familair with spatial disorientation, however it is not a concern if one knows what induces it, avoids it and above all maintain visual reference to the ground.

All that aside, ground ambulance service ex Kelowna will work very well for Bog White as it has done for years, and it will for many areas and types of calls. A helicopter service will never replace the ground ambulance but plays a vital role in saving lives and mitigating futher impairment for certain types of calls. Major trauma, heart attack etc.

[dreamon]

And the whole point of this *bleep* for tat is air evacuation is not a viable alternative given the frequent weather changes at Big White. It's a tool only. Ambulances drive in any weather. Snow rain fog clouds white outs day night.
And by BC Ambulances own admissions they transport 2 to 3 patients a day, more than a lot of other communities of the same size with a full time staffed car

Definately not an alternative, but a supplement when required for BW or any other place.

[MrRusty]

"I am very familair with spatial disorientation, however it is not a concern if one knows what induces it, avoids it and above all maintain visual reference to the ground"

I rest my case

[joer2012]

On a side note, I heard that the Shumann family divided silver star and big white up this past summer, and this is the reason for no longer having a dual mountain pass option.

Daughter has Silver Star, son has Biggie. Let the infighting and direct competition and market cannibalization commence.....this could get nasty.

Maybe Silver Star will finish its toxic effluent surface runoff plant (oops, I mean golf course).
Maybe Biggie will finish its casino, resort, and golf course projects too.
And pigs will fly up and down the Okanagan valley towing huge Biggie/Silver Star banners....

[StraitTalk]

As someone who almost lost their life on that mountain, and as someone who intricately knows the ins and outs of medical service at that mountain, this scares the living sh*t out of me. Hundreds of patients need Ambulance service from that mountain every season. The local chapter was always busy and on most weekends they couldn't even keep up. This is completely screwed up.

To put this into perspective a little bit, Big White Ski Patrol will see 40+ and often upwards of 50 10-40's (Incidents or Medical calls) on boxing day alone, every season. Many of these are head trauma, back trauma, broken legs/arms and dislocations.

If I were the management at that mountain I'd SERIOUSLY be questioning the BCAS as to why they feel this is even acceptable. It's not too long ago that there wasn't a dedicated BCAS station up there, but even so that doesn't make it alright.

The Medical staff (Ski Patrol) at Big White are incredible and very well trained, but the fact of the matter is that sometimes you need a hospital to keep people alive, and the Golden Hour is reallllly getting stretched thin here.

[bigtdawg]

Lake country Ambulance station to big white - 69.9 kms
Big white to kgh - 61.8 kms

So If the ambulance drives at 131 km/h the whole way from station to hospital, it will be able to make it in an hour, and you still need to put the patient in the ambulance. This is not going to work. The people who run big white have extremely deep pockets, they could fund a transport to meet the ambulance, driven by ski patrol. It would look really bad on them when somebody dies up there again, because they have absolutely no chance of getting them to medical care quickly enough. Wonder what extra insurance costs there will be this year? Probably more than funding a private ambulance.

[Chmmr]

Legalities and liability> The road conditions at big white can vary greatly and can pose a huge hazard not only to the patient being transported, but to the rescuers if they are expected to drive to an ambulance. Add to that the hazard you are suggesting by having them "meet" an ambulance on the road and transfer a patient (on that road there are very few places to pull over, and if you get crappy weather well make that a very very dangerous scenario). Add to all of that that the patrollers, both paid and volunteer, are not trained to transport patients in vehicles, they are trained to transport them off the mountain and out of immediate danger into a warm patrol hut. Most vehicles (with the exception of ambulances) are not set up to effectively provide medical care to a critical patient and allow them to be monitored safely (and safely for the patroller as well) and then add to that transporting things like oxygen, patients needing pain control for transport (imagine how painful a fracture femur is to be driven down the hill with-BCAS can give pain control, patrollers can't).

Big White not having an ambulance that they have had for 20 years is a really bad idea and as much as i love to fault BW for things, this is not their fault. Patrons at BW pay taxes for ambulance service and pay for their medical (and will pay a surcharge on a transport from Big White over and above the normal $54 because of the distance travelled), Big White spends tons of money each year to provide ski patrol, combined with indirect funding to CSPS, and of course equipment, supplies etc etc. This is a service that should, and was, provided by the government I suspect it will change later this year when it is proven that lives are in jeopardy because of the delay. I just hope it doesn't actually cost anyone their life for BCAS to realize their mistake.

[Chmmr]

Lake country Ambulance station to big white - 69.9 kms
Big white to kgh - 61.8 kms

So If the ambulance drives at 131 km/h the whole way from station to hospital, it will be able to make it in an hour, and you still need to put the patient in the ambulance. This is not going to work. The people who run big white have extremely deep pockets, they could fund a transport to meet the ambulance, driven by ski patrol. It would look really bad on them when somebody dies up there again, because they have absolutely no chance of getting them to medical care quickly enough. Wonder what extra insurance costs there will be this year? Probably more than funding a private ambulance.

There is no way an ambulance could travel 131km/hr on the roads to and from Big White, especially in Winter. Not realistic. And they presumably will be dispatching ambulances from Rutland since it is much closer, not from Lake Country. I have been at BW and seen how many ambulances are needed at times. Honestly this could wind up putting more of a strain on the services in the local area and increasing wait times, rather than improving them.

[Kodidad]

Summary of rights and licenses: The right of a private ambulance service to operate falls under
the Motor Vehicle Act, Emergency and Health Services Act, Commercial Vehicle Safety and Enforcement
Act, Insurance Corporation of British Columbia and WorkSafeBC. Private ambulance
services are required to be registered with ICBC. Drivers of ambulances require class 4 commercial
drivers licences. No permits are required for private ambulance services.
• Does the service provider staff their vehicle with a paramedic who possesses a valid license,
issued by the Emergency Medical Assistants Licensing Board of BC, and a “Paramedic in
Industry” certificate or an OFA Level 3 certificate issued by a WorkSafeBC authorized first aid
training agency?
• Does the service provider meet or exceed the WorkSafeBC guidelines and equipment requirements
for emergency vehicles?
• Does the service provider have a written agreement with a Medical Director?
• Are the services you require covered under the service provider’s agreement with the Medical
Director?

So a little cut and paste above from "Actsafe".
BTW, private/industrial ambulance services cannot drive code 3 lights and sirens on public roads (to the best of my knowledge) in BC, and in BC the minimum requirement to attend in the back of the ambulance is an EMR licence (significantly different than OFA). Yes BW can transport routine, but so can anybody with a van. The ambulance service makes meets with people in the back of pickup trucks all the time. Not best patient care now is it.
Not as easy to put an "ambulance" at BW as you might think.

[theyeti]

what about a small staffed clinic then open in daytime and an on call #