Mayor gives City Council "A-Plus" rating

[XT225]

A large miss conception is that a budget of zero will keep things as they are currently with no change when in effect it is a decrease. The municipality will have to deal with inflation weather they want to or not. The cost of things has and will go up, concrete, gas, diesel, pavement, paper, pencils, computers... everything cost more along with wages which the increases are still below the cost of inflation.

A budget increase of Zero is a decrease, so you are going to get a decrease in service levels if not right now eventually. The idea of using reserve accounts to balance the budget is insane, what happens if there is a major unexpected expense there are no reserves to repair it now... It seems rather short sighted... but the mayor joining the liberals seems short sighted other than he wants the pension that he tried to cut from all the city employees.

Its interesting how most of us seem to agree that it was a mistake to go with a Zero percent tax increase. Makes one wonder if this really was an attempt to boost the ratings for our upcoming MLA candidate (present mayor). Increased costs don't stop, as fiscalmind here has stated. I wouldn't ever dip into my reserves especially if we know the property prices are dropping. I believe the CFO of the city stopped short of suggesting going to zero was a bad idea but also wonder what kind of pressure he is under to say the things that council wants us to hear. I am sure he has little job security if they don't like what he says. It was a bad move in my opinion and I think the council of 2014 will have to answer for possible huge increases then.

This latest blurb from John V. points to what I was saying....in that "by ignoring infrastructure now, in two to three years we are going to pay dearly in much higher taxes". Maybe there is still a chance that council will wake up.

http://www.castanet.net/edition/news-st ... .htm#84581

[twobits]

The problem for cities is falling housing prices means lower tax revenues so the cities have less money to spend. Just further proof a 0% tax increase makes absolutely no sense.

Higher or lower property values have no impact on City tax revenues. When the amount of revenue required from property taxation is determined, the Mill Rate is simply adjusted up or down to achieve the required amount. When property values increase the Mill Rate is adjusted lower, when values decline, it is adjusted higher.
The lack of basic taxation knowledge such as this is why joe public should not be involved in setting tax policy.

[twobits]

This latest blurb from John V. points to what I was saying....in that "by ignoring infrastructure now, in two to three years we are going to pay dearly in much higher taxes". Maybe there is still a chance that council will wake up.

http://www.castanet.net/edition/news-st ... .htm#84581

He also said that the "downtown" area should be the focus of improved infrastructure and development. Check out John's financial disclosure statement and see how many properties/businesses John and his sons own in the downtown area. While you are at it, check out land titles to see what his brother and his mother also own downtown.
I can't help but think that his lobbying in this regard is a tad self serving.

[twobits]

Its interesting how most of us seem to agree that it was a mistake to go with a Zero percent tax increase.

Is it "most of us" XT or just a vocal minority? Have you already forgotten about the recently completed survey where 86% of Penticton residents wanted either a zero increase or taxes to be lowered. It would seem to me that those are the "most of us".

[fluffy]

Have you already forgotten about the recently completed survey where 86% of Penticton residents wanted either a zero increase or taxes to be lowered. It would seem to me that those are the "most of us".

I have concerns as to whether this is a well thought out position or if "most of us" aren't looking any further than our own wallets at this point? My taxes have climbed steadily for the last few years, and a respite would be welcomed, but if it's at the expense of a big increase a year or two down the road then I'd prefer it if you spanked me a little each year rather than give me a couple of years off and then put me in the hospital.

[XT225]

Twobits, I won't argue with you over John and sons' properties downtown. In fact I often have a problem with several of the councillors voting on the downtown areas. It could sometimes be construed as a conflict of interest in my opinion. Regardless of why John V. is suggesting that we could be paying big time down the road, I still believe he is right. I actually never saw the survey suggesting that 86% of residents wanted lower or the same level of property taxes. A survey like that can easily be inaccurate. Maybe it asked the basic question - "are you in favor of higher property taxes?". It needed to ask as well - "would you rather pay MUCH higher taxes in a couple of years?" because thats what is very likely to happen. So many things like the recent comments about spending big dollars on a roof repair for memorial arena and who really knows if there are "Slump problems" in our sewers, etc. We cannot continue to dip into the reserves. As Fluffy says; a little bit a a time is a better option.

[theyeti]

got to wonder about the a plus rating ?? *bleep* ? a plus ?? ask the ppl on this forum im sure they gonna all give the council an a plus as well lol

[twobits]

I have concerns as to whether this is a well thought out position or if "most of us" aren't looking any further than our own wallets at this point? My taxes have climbed steadily for the last few years, and a respite would be welcomed, but if it's at the expense of a big increase a year or two down the road then I'd prefer it if you spanked me a little each year rather than give me a couple of years off and then put me in the hospital.

Can't argue with that logic. I don't want to be put in the hospital in a few years either. I suppose where we differ is that I believe some prudent belt tightening now does not make a big hike down the road a forgone conclusion. Down the road there will have to be increases that at least match inflationary pressures but for now we need to live within our revenue constraints as long as adequete city services are maintained, and I believe services are adequete right now.
People like to point to degrading infrastructure as some kind of elephant in the room. Infrastructure improvments do not have to be 100% paid for out of capital budgets in each budget year. A lot of work can be done by tapping the Municipal Finance authority and amortizing these projects. Fiscal prudence however is required now to pay down some of our outstanding debt in order to free up a payment stream to leverage these projects for the future. It is no different than a household paying down the car loan before committing either cash or financing a home renovation. We spent too much money too fast and need to take a breath and catch up.

[3+141592]

The problem with being a good administrator is that it involves long term vision which is in rather short supply with politicians as a whole. What's that saying again - "We get the politicians that we deserve". How true.

Back to the "grade" handed out by our dear Mayor, I would like to turn this around and ask: What grade should we give the
Mayor since Nov. 2011? Not very high, if you ask me!

[XT225]

The problem with being a good administrator is that it involves long term vision which is in rather short supply with politicians as a whole. What's that saying again - "We get the politicians that we deserve". How true.

Back to the "grade" handed out by our dear Mayor, I would like to turn this around and ask: What grade should we give the
Mayor since Nov. 2011? Not very high, if you ask me!

So true, so true. I would give the Mayor an "F" on his city track record but an "A" for his long term goal of attaining the Pig's Trough Provincial Pension and good ol Billy helped him all the way. What is really sad is that we are likely to get a Liberal MLA (Ashton) in May but an NDP Provincial Government. Do you think for one minute that ANYone in Victoria is going to pay attention to the wants and needs of the South Okanagan then? No, we will suffer big time for the next several years. There were rumors that many would vote for Ashton (including myself) as MLA just to get him outta the City but somehow I can't bring myself to that low level. Dick Cannings has a chance and a good one and is an extremely likeable and approachable fellow. Go Dick, Go! ps: re twobits, your comments about paying down the road are true but unless the economy turns around soon (and its NOT expected to do so), it will be a huge hit come 2014. Better to take the Fluffy approach and take a few baby slaps now.

[3+141592]

FWIW, voting for a certain individual to move him out of City Hall could be a bad calculation: First, we have no immediate representation (not that we ever had much, but this is a different story). Second, assuming that the NDP will form the next government, we just don't know if they won't be replaced four years from now (it happens!). Assuming that the Liberals would have cleaned "upper management" for the next round (beyond May 2013) could make them "electable" and by the same token, place our dear MLA in a position of power (try repeating the words "Minister Ashton" without shivering...).

In my view, the only way out of this is to do our home work and look around for someone that deserves our vote. Assuming that the collective wisdom can agree on that someone else, our Dear Mayor can then use the remaining time on his Mayoral mandate to brush up on his real estate license, go back to school or "pursue other interests"!

One could say that I'm getting annoyed up with lack of wisdom at the helm...

[XT225]

FWIW, voting for a certain individual to move him out of City Hall could be a bad calculation: First, we have no immediate representation (not that we ever had much, but this is a different story). Second, assuming that the NDP will form the next government, we just don't know if they won't be replaced four years from now (it happens!). Assuming that the Liberals would have cleaned "upper management" for the next round (beyond May 2013) could make them "electable" and by the same token, place our dear MLA in a position of power (try repeating the words "Minister Ashton" without shivering...).

In my view, the only way out of this is to do our home work and look around for someone that deserves our vote. Assuming that the collective wisdom can agree on that someone else, our Dear Mayor can then use the remaining time on his Mayoral mandate to brush up on his real estate license, go back to school or "pursue other interests"!

One could say that I'm getting annoyed up with lack of wisdom at the helm...

Good comments, 3+141592. I am always suspicious of ANYone who gives themselves a pat on the back. Its fine to do a good job but not to expect anything in return. I dont think the record of this council is ANYthing to be proud of. I will be putting my full support behind Dick Cannings, provincially as voting for D.A. might get him out of our hair in the city but would also be giving him exactly what he wants and that I have no stomach for.

[theyeti]

hey stalin used to get 97 percent of the vote all the time lol

[XT225]

I don't know about Stalin, nor do I care but folks need to remember that Ashton received just over 1/3 of the vote last election; 1/3! Hardly a reason to think that he might be able to pull off an easy win next May, especially since there are only two main candidates running; no third person to split the vote this time and let him slip in. I've met Dick Cannings recently and found him to be an extremely likeable person and the older population often tend to vote for someone in their age group as well, so its going to be an interesting election. Re council and their rating...if I were a teacher, I would normally give them an F and make them repeat the grade but we don't want them around for another term so would give them a C- and hold my nose...lol. I also watched the latest council meeting so that I could see these folks in action and I wasn't impressed. It was the budget finalization meeting and they were all over the map with their opinions. I saw it as a rush to get it passed before the holidays period and that far more thought should've been put into it. Sorry, but the C- still holds.

[madmudder]

"don't know about Stalin, nor do I care but folks need to remember that Ashton received just over 1/3 of the vote last election; 1/3! Hardly a reason to think that he might be able to pull off an easy win next May, especially since there are only two main candidates running; no third person to split the vote this time and let him slip in"

In total agreement with that statement.
This budget is so much modeled like the BC Liberal budgets. Don't raise taxes but jack the crap on all sevices and utilities.
Dan would fit right in with that bunch but unfortunately he won't make it.