Mantler trial

[MAPearce]

There are accusations and there are the videos....

Just watched the CHBC news link and ,beyond what we can see we hear sirens....

Mantler is a disgrace .. straight up.

So is Monty Robinson.,

[Ken7]

"crookedmember"

Why I say untrained, that is very obvious by your post you have no police training.

Do you?


Hind sight is also 20-20.

It's not hind sight to believe there is no excuse for an officer to kick a person on the ground in the face.

Yes I am fully trained, and have survived over 25 years on the street in uniform.

Would I have kicked Buddy, I wasn't the one making him comply. Therefore I do not know all the facts.

Now, what is your area of expertise?? Maybe we could discuss it...

[Ken7]

Did you listen to what the reporter stated. When broken down frame by frame...or are you only pulling what you wish out of evidence here?

It will be interesting to see what the end of the trail shows.

If I was to bet, he may not be convicted...

[Roadster]

I dont believe you can ask what people do Ken7 but if you offer yours then it can be discussed.

Meanwhile I would think if sending him a kick for a reason and so it was done then so beit but I still cant see the reason, doesnt look like a threat to begin with and it sure doesnt look like he was a threat even after the kick, would you kick him in the face? I doubt it. Bet you'da pounced on him tho and called for your buddies for help.

[Raven1]

Let's keep this on topic. Did you listen to what the reporter stated. When broken down frame by frame...or are you only pulling what you wish out of evidence here?

It will be interesting to see what the end of the trail shows.

If I was to bet, he may not be convicted...

frame by frame in pictures is broken down to FRACTIONS of a secondin real time. Mantler panicked,(took the head shot) and and knew it as soon as he saw he was being filmed.

[Ken7]

I dont believe you can ask what people do Ken7 but if you offer yours then it can be discussed.

Meanwhile I would think if sending him a kick for a reason and so it was done then so beit but I still cant see the reason, doesnt look like a threat to begin with and it sure doesnt look like he was a threat even after the kick, would you kick him in the face? I doubt it. Bet you'da pounced on him tho and called for your buddies for help.

The point I was going to make was if this person has any expertise. Let's for the moment say they are a mechanic. would you argue with him on what is making your plug foul if you had no training in mechanics. That was why I asked, I guess a little off topic.

Oh well.

To the untrained eye, it was no threat, yes you are all right!

Although to a trained police officer who knows the dangers he might very well have been moving in a threatening manner. Without being there it's a tough call for me to make even known the dangers.

[Jo]

Does this thread need to be locked at night? We'll try leaving it unlocked, but you had best heed the earlier warning. If we come here tomorrow to find a bunch of off-topic personal attacks and other related nonsense, the thread might stay locked altogether. Regulate yourselves. It isn't that hard.

[KL3-Something]

Fair enough.....I'll take it , but I was disappointed when you disenfranchised yourself from your " Mantler made his own bed on tis one" post a while back.....


Then you did the " I don't have all the facts" thing shortly after ...

That is taken out of context.

He did and I still think so. But the facts of the circumstances leading up to the kick will determine whether or not the excessive force was a Criminal Act.

[Raven1]

If he is found "not guilty" is there a chance his suspension could be lifted and he goes back to the force?

[crookedmember]

Now, what is your area of expertise?? Maybe we could discuss it...

It's nobody's business. But I will admit that during my university years, I spent one summer as a mall cop and earned the reputation as quite the hard *bleep*; there were no roller blades in *my* concourse.

But seriously, how much expertise in law enforcement do I need to be of the opinion that for a cop with a gun to take three steps back and kick a guy on the ground in the face is overdoing it A LOT?

Perhaps the court will find him not guilty. I just wouldn't bet on that.

[dogbreath]

I hope Mantler never sees a badge again... even better throw him in prison. I used to have respect for cops. I was raised that way but over the years ive learned most cant be trusted and a large number are plain bullies. I personally haven't been in trouble with cops but ive seen things, many things that were just plain wrong. This incident with Mantler is just another example. The guy was on all 4's. Hardly a threat at that point to a supposed trained cop with a pistol pointing at the guys head. Any cop downplaying or even suggesting there may have been just cause are equally disgusting in my opinion.

[gordon_as]

Even if Buddy ran over 4 seniors with his truck , then got out and pistol whipped them for denting his bumper , he my deserve a kick in the face , but that is not the job of the police officer. Clearly an excessive use of force. Mantler knew he was cooked as soon as he saw someone filming him. If he had known there was a reporter present , the kick would not have happened. Unfortunately , he will probably get off by claiming the kick was intended to hit buddy in the shoulder , not the face.

[Ken7]

"

crookedmember"

Now, what is your area of expertise?? Maybe we could discuss it...

It's nobody's business. But I will admit that during my university years, I spent one summer as a mall cop and earned the reputation as quite the hard *bleep*; there were no roller blades in *my* concourse.

But seriously, how much expertise in law enforcement do I need to be of the opinion that for a cop with a gun to take three steps back and kick a guy on the ground in the face is overdoing it A LOT?

Perhaps the court will find him not guilty. I just wouldn't bet on that.

I was only curious as to where you come from on your thoughts. Here is a very interesting case law below, which may give you and others another outlook on this very topic. Excessive force, Hell's angel, it is interesting.


http://canlii.org/eliisa/highlight.do?t ... qb496.html


As I said, if not trained the dangers are not known or considered by some.

Police look at these matters from a totally differant point of view. We are trained not to let our guards down.

A example is a knife is dangerous to a officer in uniform, with gun in holster from over 25 feet away. A person trained in martial arts can attack and kill you before you can draw and shoot him.

As Buddy was armed, is there a possibility he has a second weapon concelled on him? Was the officer telling him to lay his chest to the ground ( prone) and Buddy did not listen? Was the officer in control with Buddy on his hands and knees?

This very same scenario may now be used as training. The officer really did not have the suspect under control by police standards. Was he caring a secondary weapon, not known until cuffed and searched properly. I would suggest he was ordered on more then one occasion to lay down and did not on his own doing.

Again until in the same position as Mantler, did he do the right thing I can't say. Would I have done it differant, Im unsure.

[Raven1]

What you are saying might apply if Mantler had been alone at the scene. There were other officers right there at the rear of the truck.

[Ken7]

What you are saying might apply if Mantler had been alone at the scene. There were other officers right there at the rear of the truck.

If that is directed at me, I do not know where the others were or when they arrived. It still does not make it safe for Mantler as he is in close proximity to the suspect. Read the example I gave about knive danger zone.

Mantler in this situation would not be safe until, he has control and the suspects hands are cuffed. On his hands and knees there he is still a possible threat or danger.

A safer position is suspect on his chest with arms to the side ( prone), then Mantler would have some control.