Mantler trial

[797hauler]

[/quote]By your statement you are guessing you know how trained police officers think. You are further suggesting you know that the suspect had no other weapons on his person at the time of arrest and was not a threat or danger to the officers there. Further, that you have a great understanding of how the levels of force escalate when a suspect fails to comply to the orders.

Take the time out and read the case law I presented. It might enlighten you on some the Criminal Code, and the use of force. It is relevant in the Manter case.

Why I used the mechanic story on the internal function of a motor, not a tire falling, is so you might see it from another perspective. Would you question someone on a topic you know nothing about and tell them they did not do it correctly?

You are not trained eye and therefore have little knowledge on this situation.[/quote]

*I* think you need to understand that not everybody needs to think like a TRAINED police officer to have an opinion. RCMP officers arent always as bright as one might think.

[rideforever]

It doesn't take a trained eye to tell the victim didn't pose enough threat to justify a kick to the face. Specially considering he was outnumbered and mantler had a gun pointed at him.

You compare this to diagnosing the internal workings of a engine by someone who's not a mechanic, that'd be more like us guessing what happens in the police station, this however was on video so a more valid comparrison would be watching a tire fall off a car, in which case, even someone with no training in mechanics could tell that a tire fell off the car it's bloody obvious.

By your statement you are guessing you know how trained police officers think. You are further suggesting you know that the suspect had no other weapons on his person at the time of arrest and was not a threat or danger to the officers there. Further, that you have a great understanding of how the levels of force escalate when a suspect fails to comply to the orders.

Take the time out and read the case law I presented. It might enlighten you on some the Criminal Code, and the use of force. It is relevant in the Manter case.

Why I used the mechanic story on the internal function of a motor, not a tire falling, is so you might see it from another perspective. Would you question someone on a topic you know nothing about and tell them they did not do it correctly?

You are not trained eye and therefore have little knowledge on this situation.

When you say a trained eye is needed you make it sound like you think this is on the edge of right and wrong and so close to the line that only a precise eye could see which side of the line it's on. That makes you look almost as bad as mantler. I think by 'trained eye' what you really mean is 'sociopath cops eye' since you seem to be the only ones that think people deserve a brutal assault for not bowing down immedtialy.

Mantler had a gun pointed at him, there was no threat. And if there was a threat, kicking him in the shoulder was a very dumb move as that brings him much closer to the victim than he needed to be and the victim could have grabbed his foot and attacked.

[zzontar]

Mantler had a gun pointed at him, there was no threat. And if there was a threat, kicking him in the shoulder was a very dumb move as that brings him much closer to the victim than he needed to be and the victim could have grabbed his foot and attacked.

Exactly, and what would have happened if Buddy would have seen it coming and tried to defend himself? Guaranteed it would have turned out much worse, and would only have turned out worse because of the kick.

[crookedmember]

Oh I agree. I'm sure he would give anything to relive that particular moment of his career.

But the RCMP acted in haste in an attempt to quell a media *bleep* by suspending him without pay. The problem is that the RCMP Act is a piece of legislation (albeit one in serious need of updating) that is governed like all pieces of legislation. By Case Law (i.e. previous incidents). You can bet your *bleep* that Mantler's lawyers have a stack of cases where members out there did far worse, and far more malicious, things that didn't get them suspended without pay or fired. These will likely show that the actions taken against Mantler by the force were disproportionate to the norm. The "Powers That Be" at the time made a decision to suspend without pay I'm sure knowing that they would not still be in their positions when this all shook out (Neither of those who had to sign on the dotted line are in still with the RCMP). With Case Law surrounding other incidents setting the precedent, he will be able to seek remedy from the court for being treated unfairly so the force could temporarily save face.

If he is found not guilty (and even if he isn't) I'm pretty sure his next stop is going to be Federal Court.

Then again, if he goes after the bosses, how much other stuff is in Mantler's RCMP file? Apparently this is not the first particular moment in his career that a normal person might not want to relive.

Maybe, just maybe, there's something seriously wrong with this guy.

[zzontar]

I also wonder if it's part of training for an officer to instigate an assault while their weapon is drawn? Seems like a recipe for disaster to me.

[crookedmember]

Mantler had a gun pointed at him, there was no threat. And if there was a threat, kicking him in the shoulder was a very dumb move as that brings him much closer to the victim than he needed to be and the victim could have grabbed his foot and attacked.

Exactly, and what would have happened if Buddy would have seen it coming and tried to defend himself? Guaranteed it would have turned out much worse, and would only have turned out worse because of the kick.

It's funny the female cop didn't seem as scared of Tavares as Mantler was. She jumped right on top of him and put the handcuffs on, hidden weapons be damned.

[mountainman2222]

I don't think case law will help Mantler in this case.The video is just to damning.
I do wonder why his superiors didn't suggest he apologize to Buddy and offer some small settlement.Maybe even sending Mantler for some more training or counselling.
The whole situation just hasn't been handled very well.

[WhatThe]

I find it rather disturbing that there are enough beatings to establish a norm, I find it even more disturbing that men in positions of extreme authority white wash the incidents.
It seems like this organisation is ethically corrupt from top to bottom.

You say it is whitewashed!! Where does that come from? Mantler is charged with all offences that he could be charged with; he was suspended almost instantaneously; he had his pay stopped as quickly as they could stop it. Where is the whitewash? Where, in this incident is the evidence to support a contention that "this organization is corrupt from top to bottom"? Also, I think you pretty much missed the point in relation to the discussion you are referring to above. The poster was saying that there are other incidents [which he didn't say were beatings] that when compared to Mantler's actions, the allegations were equally as serious or more serious, and where the accused members were not sujected to suspension without pay! Ergo, he was being treated more severely than others.

If you replace the word "beating" with "criminal use of force cases" and "whitewash" with "I won't be here when this case goes forward, I'll let someone else deal with it", does it make more sense?

[WhatThe]

A couple of members have said to the effect of that mantler was operating under the assumption of extreme peril. Fair enough. So why did he attempt to extricate Tavares by himself without backup which was just seconds away.

My speculation is that he's the type of cop that likes the chase, likes to bust the "bad guys" and gets off on authority.

[Roadster]

Its funny cos after this 1.5 years I still cant get over the kick. It doesnt Look like there was a threat before and it doesnt Look like there was a threat after. If Buddy's hands went up for a second could it be he went down and then tried to edge upward to ask what this was all about?
If anything that would be my bet cos his movement didnt look like a lunging upward of any kind. And the kick, well, it just doesnt look like a defensive kick, it looks like a victory kick, like someone would do to a soccer ball after a win in a game sept this one does look like it had anger behind it in the video. No one was expecting it. It was a complete shock to watch it and hear the kick to someone's head.
Video can show us a lot and the slowmo version might look just as confusing as the regular speed version altho I havent seen it in slowmo. There has to be lots of examination over what was said when the hands lifted as is being said on yesterdays news because hands lifting isnt always a threat unless there is more to it. If nothing was found in Buddy's pockets like a gun or a knife then he surely wasnt going for anything to hurt anyone.
We do realise cops have to be careful and might need to make moves to prevent an attack on themselves but this just doesnt look like one as he was going down as told to do. and myself, I would have expected anything other then a kick to the face.
You have to realize Ken7, we have seen a lot of police brutality across Canada and even worse in other countries, last thing we want to think is our own famous RCMP who we grew up to trust would resort to that even tho we might say some criminals need to be beaten. We dont mean it in a physical way by a cop. We would like to see repeat offenders put away a very long time but by judgement in a court, if our cops ruin that by hurting someone wrongly during a take down we all lose because that criminal might walk away from the court room a free person as has happened many times. Thats what makes the public so mad. Plus the fact that the person being taken down could be the wrong one. If he is confused about it he could look like he is resisting in his confusion.
I keep saying you guys have to be human first, then a cop. You have to survive but you cant be wrong and if you are, which is part of being human then you have to try to protect yourself and the possible criminal because he is still innocent till proven guilty. So what makes this hard to process is the fact that we have seen it already. The RCMP has to take a stand on this and do everything they can to make sure they look like police men and women and not this "men's club" thing that is gaining popularity in the public eye. So IF he did any bit of it wrong he has to become a civilian at the very least, and I say If,,, cos you are right, I dont know for sure but put yerself in a civilians boots and watch that video. Does it look like he was about to be attacked or does it look like he was angry or hyped up over the capture?
It sure made a lot of people angry in a hurry, and you know why, we want to trust a cop when they pull the rest of us over some day. So if someone on the force is getting tired or hyped up and showing he is not safe then he should leave or be taken out. At this point I dont have any personal anger for him, I just want him to leave the service if its not a good place for him, and any others who feel done or feel they are a super hero and can do damage above and beyond for no reason. And in the same breath I respect what you guys do and have had very awesome, professional service when I called for help over someone trying to break in my house and a few other incidences.
I hope in the end of all of this you see we (the majority of us) are not out to Get anyone, we just want to trust.

[rutland1]

Bet iF Buddy had a hells angels jacket on their would have been no kick to the face. Its called respect.

[the truth]

Bet iF Buddy had a hells angels jacket on their would have been no kick to the face. Its called respect.

sure if you respect killers ,drugdealers and rapeists

[797hauler]

sure if you respect killers ,drugdealers and rapeists

Those kind of people exist everywhere, and their all not hells angels...thats getting old..

[KillinTime]

Wasn't Buddy discharging a firearm earlier.

[the truth]

Wasn't Buddy discharging a firearm earlier.

yes he was, but that seems to be ok?????for lots of people around here.