Castanet

Ken7 wrote:"

I was only curious as to where you come from on your thoughts. Here is a very interesting case law below, which may give you and others another outlook on this very topic. Excessive force, Hell's angel, it is interesting.


http://canlii.org/eliisa/highlight.do?t ... qb496.html


As I said, if not trained the dangers are not known or considered by some.

Police look at these matters from a totally differant point of view. We are trained not to let our guards down.

A example is a knife is dangerous to a officer in uniform, with gun in holster from over 25 feet away. A person trained in martial arts can attack and kill you before you can draw and shoot him.

As Buddy was armed, is there a possibility he has a second weapon concelled on him? Was the officer telling him to lay his chest to the ground ( prone) and Buddy did not listen? Was the officer in control with Buddy on his hands and knees?

This very same scenario may now be used as training. The officer really did not have the suspect under control by police standards. Was he caring a secondary weapon, not known until cuffed and searched properly. I would suggest he was ordered on more then one occasion to lay down and did not on his own doing.

Again until in the same position as Mantler, did he do the right thing I can't say. Would I have done it differant, Im unsure.

Ken7 wrote:"
I was only curious as to where you come from on your thoughts. Here is a very interesting case law below, which may give you and others another outlook on this very topic. Excessive force, Hell's angel, it is interesting.


http://canlii.org/eliisa/highlight.do?t ... qb496.html

“Allowance must be made for the exigencies of the moment, keeping in mind that the police officer cannot be expected to measure the force with exactitude.” (See: Anderson v. Port Moody (City) Police Department, [2000] B.C.J. No. 1628 per Dillon J.).

Raven1 wrote:If he is found "not guilty" is there a chance his suspension could be lifted and he goes back to the force?

Raven1 wrote:If he is found "not guilty" is there a chance his suspension could be lifted and he goes back to the force?

Fancy wrote:Wouldn't that be good news?

KL3-Something wrote:Followed by a civil suit against the force for "throwing him under the bus".

Ken7 wrote:The point I was going to make was if this person has any expertise. Let's for the moment say they are a mechanic. would you argue with him on what is making your plug foul if you had no training in mechanics. That was why I asked, I guess a little off topic.

Oh well.

To the untrained eye, it was no threat, yes you are all right!

KL3-Something wrote:Followed by a civil suit against the force for "throwing him under the bus".

LoneWolf_53 wrote:No matter how open minded I attempt to keep myself, I'm afraid that to me that video shows Mantler throwing himself under the bus.

As adults we are all accountable for the decisions we make, some good, some bad, and that goes equally for someone in uniform, though I believe they are expected to uphold a higher standard. I wouldn't be surprised at all if in hindsight Mantler wishes he could take that kick back.

KL3-Something wrote: By Case Law (i.e. previous incidents). You can bet your *bleep* that Mantler's lawyers have a stack of cases where members out there did far worse, and far more malicious, things that didn't get them suspended without pay or fired. These will likely show that the actions taken against Mantler by the force were disproportionate to the norm. The "Powers That Be" at the time made a decision to suspend without pay I'm sure knowing that they would not still be in their positions when this all shook out (Neither of those who had to sign on the dotted line are in still with the RCMP). With Case Law surrounding other incidents setting the precedent, he will be able to seek remedy from the court for being treated unfairly so the force could temporarily save face.

gordon_as wrote:Even if Buddy ran over 4 seniors with his truck , then got out and pistol whipped them for denting his bumper , he my deserve a kick in the face , but that is not the job of the police officer. Clearly an excessive use of force. Mantler knew he was cooked as soon as he saw someone filming him. If he had known there was a reporter present , the kick would not have happened. Unfortunately , he will probably get off by claiming the kick was intended to hit buddy in the shoulder , not the face.

It doesn't take a trained eye to tell the victim didn't pose enough threat to justify a kick to the face. Specially considering he was outnumbered and mantler had a gun pointed at him.

You compare this to diagnosing the internal workings of a engine by someone who's not a mechanic, that'd be more like us guessing what happens in the police station, this however was on video so a more valid comparrison would be watching a tire fall off a car, in which case, even someone with no training in mechanics could tell that a tire fell off the car it's bloody obvious.

Ken7 wrote: You are further suggesting you know that the suspect had no other weapons on his person at the time of arrest and was not a threat or danger to the officers there. Further, that you have a great understanding of how the levels of force escalate when a suspect fails to comply to the orders.