Fire plan too rich for taxpayers

[Woodenhead]

I just wanted to say that there isn't necessarily anything wrong with volunteer dept's. They can be just as good (or better) than their full-time counterparts. I know that where I used to live, the volunteer dept ranked top 3 in the province for response time. (this included full-time dept's and all the rest) Their training was top-notch as well. I think a lot of it depends on how dedicated the volunteers are.

Mind you, the hall was across the street from the local bar - I remember it emptying out every time the siren went off! (I lived across the street)

[Ken7]

I just wanted to say that there isn't necessarily anything wrong with volunteer dept's. They can be just as good (or better) than their full-time counterparts. I know that where I used to live, the volunteer dept ranked top 3 in the province for response time. (this included full-time dept's and all the rest) Their training was top-notch as well. I think a lot of it depends on how dedicated the volunteers are.

Mind you, the hall was across the street from the local bar - I remember it emptying out every time the siren went off! (I lived across the street)

At the least not all drive off drunk...lol.

Being serious, just think of the safety factor, firework is teamwork.

Remove one link of that safety chain and you could have trouble. Lucky we do not see more of that even here, when the volunteers load up, who knows if one is possibly under the influence of something that could impair their judgement!

[Woodenhead]

heh well that was just back in "the good ol' days" (60s/70s) - things aren't like that there now. Still top-notch response times & training tho.

[callotto]

It seems to me that they should be called the
Medical department.
Fire Departments are about more manpower, and will avoid technological solutions if
that would reduce manpower requirements.
Why doesn't the city get more ambulances and let the fire department fight fires?

[grammafreddy]

Ambulances aren't a city responsibility? They are provincial, I think.

[fiscalmind]

It seems to me that they should be called the
Medical department.
Fire Departments are about more manpower, and will avoid technological solutions if
that would reduce manpower requirements.
Why doesn't the city get more ambulances and let the fire department fight fires?

The BC Ambulance Service is provincially funded. Well sort of funded. It has more "Volunteers" than the fire departments. $2 an hour to carry a pages is pretty much "Volunteering" anyway.

If the city started funding it then taxes would go way up and the cost for service would be much higher. Currently there is a $80 dollar bill for an ambulance ride, in most provinces it is closer to $300 or more.

[grammafreddy]

I didn't get a bill.

[Ken7]

The BC Ambulance Service is provincially funded. Well sort of funded. It has more "Volunteers" than the fire departments. $2 an hour to carry a pages is pretty much "Volunteering" anyway.

If the city started funding it then taxes would go way up and the cost for service would be much higher. Currently there is a $80 dollar bill for an ambulance ride, in most provinces it is closer to $300 or more.

I'm not certain if you are correct on that statement.

If you consider the 6457 medical responses in 2010 at wage alone, that's using 4 men in a fire truck, the cost of the truck, the fuel costs, compared to having to EMT's on board a Ambulance. The costs would I believe be less then 50% per call.

Then consider the wages paid out on both companies.

If in fact it is the Provinces mandate to provide Ambulance service, I guess they would have to compensate by possibly adding more units and staff.

I haven't really figured it out here, we have City of Kelowna, then we have the Regional District and it would appear there is areas where there is double coverage, why are we doing this it costs to have the coverage.

An example I have observed beside Fire and Ambulance attending accidents is a landfill. We have Regional and City policing the dump.... why?

[fiscalmind]

The fire departments assist the ambulance at medical calls because there are not enough ambulances to go to all the calls. The BCAS is so understaffed and underfunded that if the fire departments stopped going to medical calls people would be waiting for over an hour some times on urgent calls for an ambulance to show up.

The First Responder program band aids the BCAS so that someone shows up to medical calls in a somewhat timely manner.

Stopping the fire department going to medical calls will not save money, you still need the same amount of fire department resources to put out a fire. Your just going to add more cost by paying to have additional ambulances.

[Ken7]

The fire departments assist the ambulance at medical calls because there are not enough ambulances to go to all the calls. The BCAS is so understaffed and underfunded that if the fire departments stopped going to medical calls people would be waiting for over an hour some times on urgent calls for an ambulance to show up.

The First Responder program band aids the BCAS so that someone shows up to medical calls in a somewhat timely manner.

Stopping the fire department going to medical calls will not save money, you still need the same amount of fire department resources to put out a fire. Your just going to add more cost by paying to have additional ambulances.

I question how cost effective that is.

Also is the Provincial Government compensating the City for ambulance services? If it is the Province's responsibility to provide health care and transport, why is the city providing deluxe coverage with the addition of four paid staff, a million dollar taxi for them and the list goes on...


Build more halls for coverage, and staff them to put out fires. The wear and tear on a fire truck vs. an ambulance or two is not the same!!

[fiscalmind]

Build more halls for coverage, and staff them to put out fires. The wear and tear on a fire truck vs. an ambulance or two is not the same!!

So you want them to stop going to medical calls to save the money on vehicle maintenance?

[callotto]

It appears to me that when I see a fender bender that there are 2 police cars, 2 fire trucks and an ambulance attending.
That would be 10 taxpayer funded employees attending a single accident from three different services each of whom report their attendance as an incident for funding purposes.
This seems to me to be about growing a bureaucracy vs public safety. There is a union battle between the firefighters and ambulance workers and the firefighters are trying to extend their employment into first responder services.
Real fire incidents have been in steady decline for decades due to building code changes so these guys have to try to
make work for themselves.

[theyeti]

police do the same by twisting the crime stats every year or 2 .

anything to make panic makes these guys look good .

feds r feds r feds . only good thing is a fireman will pull u from a crashed car the cop will charge u for crashing it

[Queller]

It appears to me that when I see a fender bender that there are 2 police cars, 2 fire trucks and an ambulance attending.
That would be 10 taxpayer funded employees attending a single accident from three different services each of whom report their attendance as an incident for funding purposes.
This seems to me to be about growing a bureaucracy vs public safety. There is a union battle between the firefighters and ambulance workers and the firefighters are trying to extend their employment into first responder services.
Real fire incidents have been in steady decline for decades due to building code changes so these guys have to try to
make work for themselves.

Actually modern building codes are weak in terms of occupant and firefighter safety. Fires tend to burn hotter, faster nowadays and buildings collapse quicker due to increased use of synthetics and plastics everywhere, and lightweight construction. I saw a letter from the firefighters union in the paper a while ago asking the federal government to change the building code to reflect these concerns.
In terms of MVA's the ambulance responsibility is the medical treatment of the patients (with FF assistance), the Fire Department role is rescue (jaws of life, etc) and scene safety/clean up, and the RCMP investigate the cause /criminal element. So everyone has a role and these three services try to work together as best as possible.
Maybe appreciate the work these organizations due instead of trying to armchair quarterback everything?

[Ken7]

So you want them to stop going to medical calls to save the money on vehicle maintenance?

I feel somehow their mandate has changed. Fire personnel should be available to fight fires. Having them all stand with medical equipment all over, may be the fire that gets away. Why, because they were busy with a heart attack victim and were at the furthest point away.

Fire trucks, you will find are the most expensive piece of equipment the City has to purchase. As I also stated if the Province is mandated to supply Medical, why are we sending Firemen? I guess someone is missing it.

I say it's a miss management of resources in my opinion.