Fire plan too rich for taxpayers

[verve_80]

I couldnt agree more grmfrdy . Waiting for medical aid to arrive can seem like forever but why do we have to double up on the same service ?? I guess this day and time perhaps its the only thing we get a double whammy for our tax dollar.

Have you ever seen anyone in cardiac arrest? All 4 firefighters and both paramedics are hard at work at those calls. There is a reason fire is sent. Someone is needed to do CPR, ventilate, hook up the monitor, start IVs and drugs on the patient. All members of both fire and the ambulance are needed. Also, if the patient is bigger or has special needs fire is a great help with getting the patient to the ambulance.

[Captain Awesome]

What are the areas in need of new firehalls?

[verve_80]

What are the areas in need of new firehalls?

North Glenmore definitely needs one. We have friends there who have to wait quite a while to get an ambulance or a fire truck to their place, and they are centrally located in North Glenmore.

[zoo]

I believe kelowna has been very lucky in regards to how much has been spent on our fire dept. Most of the Kelowna halls came to the city of Kelowna free of charge over 40 yrs. ago when the city became one. Driving by these halls its clear to see that not a penny has been spent over the 40 yrs fixing them up from the outside. Mission's and Rutlands halls look like crap and actually to the point that they are an embarrassment to the city. My question is "What has the city spent on these halls in the last 40 yrs and maybe they should be happy they have been able to run these halls with no face lift over these yrs."
They do look like crap.

[zoo]

Just did a little looking and found that compared to other cities in BC Kelowna is actually always doing very well. Over 100 million yr more revenue than Kamloops. Yet we spend 1 million less on our fire dept. This town does very very well. A city with an above average Cost of homes,(meaning higher taxes from these homes), Incredible income from development.
Also found that our city puts away Millions yearly to save for future needs. I do not see the high rises, development, UBC, Major airport in Kamloops as here. How are these protected properly with our same fire halls that we had here 40 yrs ago.
I live in the north part of the city, my insurance company is always on us about our fire coverage because we have only 1 volunteer hall and the others are to far away according to guidelines.
So if no new halls have been built over 40 yrs why are they complaining now about a request for a new hall 6 yrs from now???
Does the size of this city and whats in it not require better service?
Also looked into how this cities fire dept. does in relation to others regarding how many calls they receive in a yr.
Turns out Kelowna is far above pretty much every other city in BC in call volume and relation to man power and fire halls.
I'm not saying we need to spends millions all at once, but if very little has been done over 40 yrs and the plan is only for future fire halls then whats the problem??? Isn't it over due????

[JoePlanner]

Don't know enough about the issue personally re: the need for the proposed KLO hall, but the need for a permanent (paid) hall for Glenmore is beyond question. It's been overdue for 20 years. The poster above who mentioned being nagged by their insurance company is right - the other halls are so far away that it makes insurers nervous. We don't want to be in a situation where Glenmore starts having difficulty across the board getting insurance.

[zoo]

Wasn't there some report just done by the city last yr that found our fire dept. services are too low and not in support of insurance standards? Also it was stated that our fire hall is one of the busiest in the country compared to its man power and coverage. Has anyone else heard this. Is there only 1 fire station in the south part of the city?? Dehart rd. If there is a major call, say to the new Kettle valley school does the second fire truck come all the way from Enterprise. Holy crap, that don't make sense.

[verve_80]

Just did a little looking and found that compared to other cities in BC Kelowna is actually always doing very well. Over 100 million yr more revenue than Kamloops. Yet we spend 1 million less on our fire dept. This town does very very well. A city with an above average Cost of homes,(meaning higher taxes from these homes), Incredible income from development.
Also found that our city puts away Millions yearly to save for future needs. I do not see the high rises, development, UBC, Major airport in Kamloops as here. How are these protected properly with our same fire halls that we had here 40 yrs ago.
I live in the north part of the city, my insurance company is always on us about our fire coverage because we have only 1 volunteer hall and the others are to far away according to guidelines.
So if no new halls have been built over 40 yrs why are they complaining now about a request for a new hall 6 yrs from now???
Does the size of this city and whats in it not require better service?
Also looked into how this cities fire dept. does in relation to others regarding how many calls they receive in a yr.
Turns out Kelowna is far above pretty much every other city in BC in call volume and relation to man power and fire halls.
I'm not saying we need to spends millions all at once, but if very little has been done over 40 yrs and the plan is only for future fire halls then whats the problem??? Isn't it over due????

You're right, if we don't spend any money on the fire dept now we will have to spend a bunch more all at once in the future to play catch up, like some other municipalities have had to do. And you're correct, if Kettle Valley is on fire, the first truck comes from the Mission hall, and the second truck would indeed be coming from Enterprise.

[acrossthebridge]

Spend more on BC Ambulance??? Hmm not sure about that one... They came to get my aunt and had three people in one ambulance and two in another... Adds up to 5 perople and two ambulances in my math. Firefighters showed up with two first and did the same thing except give aunt Pam a ride to the hospital.Ill pay the extra tax to have enough fireman to do the job of fire fighting amd medical and all the other things they do. Ohh and spend more municipal tax dollars on Provincial matters?

The reason two ambulances showed up is because one is an advanced life support ambulance. It may appear they do the same things, but they do not. They are trained in the most serious calls. They can perform advanced airway management, cardiac monitoring, and start IV's all of which firemen can not do. Don't get me wrong, we need fire fighters, all I am saying is maybe they should not respond to medical calls, which frees them up to fight fires. The extra money then could be spent on medical response. People seem to forget that if fire department shows up first, who is going to take you to the hospital if there is no ambulances to transport? If 70 precent of the work is responding to medical calls and you drop that, you just solved the problem. They are now ready to respond to any fire with full manpower. I once again think they should do what they are experts at and that's is to fight fires.

[grammafreddy]

The reason two ambulances showed up is because one is an advanced life support ambulance. It may appear they do the same things, but they do not. They are trained in the most serious calls. They can perform advanced airway management, cardiac monitoring, and start IV's all of which firemen can not do. Don't get me wrong, we need fire fighters, all I am saying is maybe they should not respond to medical calls, which frees them up to fight fires. The extra money then could be spent on medical response. People seem to forget that if fire department shows up first, who is going to take you to the hospital if there is no ambulances to transport? If 70 precent of the work is responding to medical calls and you drop that, you just solved the problem. They are now ready to respond to any fire with full manpower. I once again think they should do what they are experts at and that's is to fight fires.

I am getting the impression that you think if the firemen show up first then the ambulance doesn't come at all?

[Woodenhead]

There are certain things that shouldn't be skimped out on - public safety (firefighters, police, ambulances, etc.) is one of the most important ones. Especially in a growing city. It's inevitable.

[hobbyguy]

Just for reference, residential property taxes in Kelowna are quite reasonable. I was just calcutaling the property tax/1,000 of value (2010 numbers) and Kelowna is well below Kamloops, Abbotsford, and Nanaimo (by about 25%) and Prince George rates are almost double.

Doesn't mean we should spend our way up to those numbers though.

Oh, just for laughs - Grand Forks is in between Nanaimo and PG.

[Kel6508]

I don't think adding two more halls to kelowna and 40 plus firemen would benefit the taxpayers of kelowna. I think the majority of money would be better spent on adding more ambulance stations and paramedics to aliviate the responses the fire department does. Acording to the city of kelowna website the majority of responses they do is first medical response. So would it not be financially prudent to spend the money where it is really needed, and that's more emergency medical responses by bc ambulance? It would free up the department to focus what they are good at, and that's fighting fires.

That may be fine but we are not only talking about medical calls. What about fire, motor vehicle accidents etc. I also have friends that live in Noth Glenmore, upper mission and the Qual ridge area. It takes a long time to respond to these areas with one fire truck let alone 3 or 4 if there is a house fire. Remember that we all pay taxes and should have the same protection whether we live in downtown kelowna or north glenmore. As the city grows and our boundaries are expanded the City is responsible to expand the services that protect those areas. As more studies are done and it continues to show that areas of our city are not adequately protected with fire and medical service it won't take long for the insurance companies to start raising their rates and passing it on to those homeowners that live in these areas. It is a large amount of money but remember what price to you put on a human life? especially if it is someone you know.

[zoo]

Why is all this such a surprise to our counsel?
If for over 40 yrs they have never had to build a fire hall and now they are told its only being requested for at least another 5 yrs away did they never once think of planning for this. Did they not have enough common sense that one day there would be a need for more fire halls. Its not a sudden surprise the growth of this city. Its been going on for the last 30 yrs.
Just seems very poor on their behalf never to have anticipated this. It would have been different if they had built and expanded halls over the yrs but we have not built a fire hall in over 40 yrs.
Someone noted that Mission black mountain glenmore etc. does deserve more coverage, thats only fair. They pay the same taxes.
Funny some of the counselors have very successfully expanded their business in this town over the yrs.

[grammafreddy]

http://www.chbcnews.ca/council+stifles+ ... story.html

Council stifles Kelowna firefighting expansion plans
CHBC News, Kelowna : Thursday, November 29, 2012 3:00 PM


Photo Credit: CHBC News , Kelowna

The City of Kelowna spends $13.2 million annually on its fire department, the second most expensive municipal cost next to policing.

There are 96 full-time firefighters in Kelowna and 50 volunteers who are paid on-call. Volunteers operate in three of the city’s 10 stations.

But expansion plans are coming head-to-head with penny pinching politicians who question if more volunteer firefighters will help the city meet increasing emergency response demands.

Jeff Carlisle, chief of the Kelowna Fire Department, recently presented a 10-year strategic plan to Kelowna City Council. The plan included better response time for more of the city, but shorter response times for more neighbourhoods would mean the addition of two more manned stations.

“In our analysis, we did considerable effort to quantify the risks in areas where there’s a gap in coverage,” said Carlisle. “In particular, the north end of the city, around UBCO and the airport as well as the KLO/Gordon/Pandosy area.”
Building, equipping and manning the two halls would cost the city upwards of $8 million plus an additional $4 million a year for staff.

“If you’re going to save money, how do you do it? To us, the most obvious way would be to make better use of the volunteers,” said Kelowna mayor Walter Gray.

But Carlisle disagrees. He says career firefighters can respond to emergencies within 80 seconds out of the stations but it takes between five and seven minutes for volunteer firefighters.

Former Kelowna fire chief and current city councilor Gerry Zimmerman says he would like to see resources increased downtown, where call volumes show they are needed the most.

“The city looks different than it did before so does that create new challenges for a fire department? Sure it does. Does that create more costs? Probably that too,” he said.

Carlisle will now work with city staff to answer questions to help bring forward a new plan that works to protect the city and its cheque book.


© Global News. A division of Shaw Media Inc., 2012.