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Re: Summerland Seniors Village Problem

PostPosted: Dec 4th, 2012, 12:38 am
by bipdl
Fritzthecat wrote:As a nurse I wasn't going to comment on this one but after reading this thread I feel I must....

I'll tell you another thing: Most staff at private facilities are too damn scared to risk their jobs reporting stuff. You can thank our lovely BC Liberal government who introduced legislation allowing for contracts to be ripped up. People are scared and don't want to lose their jobs. Staffing level are inadequate too: if it is private, they skimp to bolster their bottom line; if it is publicly funded, the money just isn't there.

:rate10: :rate10: :rate10:

Thank You, Fritzy, for saying what desperately needed to be said!!!

People just don't want to fork out the true cost of warehousing the elderly till the end, either through taxes or through private sector operations competing for market share.

Bottom line is that the generation now entering these establishments elected successive governments who essentially didn't extract enough taxes from them during their working years in preparation for paying for their expensive care needs later in life. (To have done so would have political suicide in its day.)

Instead, everybody chose to ignore the elephant in the corner by spending (and being encouraged to spend) their incomes on "living the American dream" while failing to sock away sufficient private savings to guarantee their ability to meet their own life's later needs. To further complicate matters, this same generation was falsely coddled into believing in some imaginary "they" who will faithfully provide "universal access" to everything for the rest of their natural lives, which are getting longer and longer as time goes on. Now, the chickens are coming home to roost... and (demographically speaking) the fun is just getting started!

I predict the problems are going to manifest themselves exponentially from here on in because: A) wages in this service sector are going the wrong way (down, due to privatization and union busting! "Hmmm, let's see... I can flip burgers for a few shekels over minimum wage... or, I can change old farts' dirty diapers for about he same pay?"); and B) there's going to be a whole big lot of old people beating on the front doors very. very soon expecting to be given a clean bed and three squares a day... all of them chanting: "I paid my taxes!" (Uh, yeah, but not as much as your needs now require.)

Re: Summerland Seniors Village Problem

PostPosted: Dec 4th, 2012, 1:48 am
by bipdl
my5cents wrote:The policy at this facility is,...

Uhhh, you know this... HOW? (You've published your misinterpretations as fact already on this thread. Are you trying again?)

Are you talking about the Assisted Living dining room, or, one of the six Residential Care dining areas?? BIG difference between the two, and their respective protocols (AL vs RC)!

Sounds to me like you are trying to lay blame on one of the table waitresses for not keeping track of the comings and goings of a free-willed, lucid, ambulatory apartment tenant.

my5cents wrote: I don't know if there is a procedure for example, if the resident is visiting a relative for the day, or whatever. I don’t know if they log out of the facility.

Exactly, you DON'T know!

my5cents wrote:... however meals at this facility are the "check point".

You're sure of that, are you?

Please stop trying to blame staff for what is obviously a facility MANAGEMENT shortcoming, either via failure to provide proper staffing levels, or via failure to provide proper training and monitoring of staff, or via failure to consistently enforce existing procedural policies (obviously for at least several days), or via failing to even have a policy in place in anticipation of this sort of situation. Pick One!

Try to consider the question this way, my5cents; When you see a car accident, do you blame the car... or the driver?

Re: Summerland Seniors Village Problem

PostPosted: Dec 4th, 2012, 7:57 am
by twobits
bipdl wrote: When you see a car accident, do you blame the car... or the driver?

Depends if it was a Toyota or not.

No matter how brilliant the managment, how amazing the staff, or how rigid and encompassing the protocol, failures are going to happen as we are but humble humans. All we can do is strive to minimize the occurances and be wary of those who intentionally skirt minimum standards and expose the ones with consistant and poor track records.

Re: Summerland Seniors Village Problem

PostPosted: Dec 4th, 2012, 9:43 am
by Queen K
It's easy to mix up jargon and use the wrong descriptive language to describe a living situation incorrectly.

I can't tell you how many times I've had to correct people because quite honestly, if they are using the wrong language, they entrench their expectations into what they think mom/dad are living in.

The problem lies in that there is no satisfactory language to fully embrace independent living.

Do we call them "homes". Is everyone very clear as to what they mean by "home"?
Do we call them "facilitilies"?
Calling them "carehomes" is the ultimate in lazy usage of vocabulary.
Independent living is not assisted living. Nor is it a residential carehome.
I like to call them "independent living situations." Using that language removes the aura of giving a wrong impression that mom/dad are moving into anything EXCEPT room/board.

And the situations do not evolve. What I mean by that is just because mom/dad has lived in the situation for upwards five to twelve years and has seen many staffing changes and residents move in and out, and seen the place renovated or managementment changes, the situation of room/board hasn't changed.

The nanosecond mom/dad needs higher levels of personal care, is the nanosecond family and healthcare professionals have to hire private or government careworkers, at an extra cost above and beyond the rent. The staff will all be concerned, but are not able to rise to the occassion. Not licensed to do so, and won't be.

The language and vocabulary one uses to describe mom/dads needs as opposed to where they are living can be one of the most frustrating experiences. I can't tell you how many people just don't have it right.

Re: Summerland Seniors Village Problem

PostPosted: Dec 4th, 2012, 4:23 pm
by bipdl
Ahh, yes, "a rose by any other name"...

I was simply using the vernacular employed by the Company at the center of this maelstrom.

Perhaps there should be a dictionary of terms governing this industry... you know, so that everybody is on the same page as to what degree of care and attention is actually afforded, and, specifically, what's not. That would level the playing field considerably and leave less in the hands of half-the-story marketing department word spinners.

Evidently, there should be more realistic provisions for actual daily living requirements (like face clothes and diapers as mentioned earlier). Big Screen TV's flashing in unused exercise rooms and vacant foyers are glitzy wastes of valuable resources that could far more appropriately be used toward improved staffing levels, attractive and retentive wages and working conditions, better training, etc., so that residents receive a higher and more consistently stable caliber of care.

Still, that wouldn't address the need for constant re-evaluation of perpetually evolving needs. Is such a thing up to family members? Or, Doctors? Or, the observations of boots-on-the-floor staff who have daily interaction with residents of these facilities? It's a tough question, especially since so many families expect to just be able to drop Mom or Dad off at the door for others to assume full (hired) responsibility for, like kids at a permanent summer camp.

My hope is that discussions concerning this fiasco will result in a more logical, common-sense approach to meeting seniors' actual care needs, instead of merely the ostentatious display of "opulent lifestyle living".

Re: Summerland Seniors Village Problem

PostPosted: Dec 4th, 2012, 6:28 pm
by Queen K
I hope you didn't lose perspective in what I meant by bringing up simple things, like personal provisions, faceclothes etc.

You touch on it by saying "what is not" provided. That's what I'm getting at too, to everyone, never look at what is provided or half provided, always look at what is left for YOU to fill in.

No one goes through a whole week with only two meals per day for that week right.
So be there when groceries are needed.

Personal care laundry is NOT done by staff in independent living.
Be there for laundry detergent, checking for clothes that get hung up dirty and put back on dirty, and be there for when mom/dad puts on weight in these places. Because a whole lot of clothing shopping may need done. I say put on weight because as soon as this lifestyle is in place, usually with parties, desserts at every mealtime and heavy breakfasts given to them all the time, the weight piles on. I've met very few sensible people who put a stop to their caloric intake.

Be there for easy care clothing, or be prepared to take dry cleaning away and bring it back.

Be there for personal care needs, be prepared to go shopping, bringing it in and putting it away. Esp. if mom/dad are suddenly struggling with an on set of forgetfulness or health problems.

Understand that linen changes are once a week in these places, usually. But if an incontinent problem arises, then be prepared to come in to launder more linens and provide changes of linens. Or buy three/four incontinent pads for daily use and esp. daily washing.

Be prepared to higher privately to keep mom/dad in the independent category. It is much cheaper to do so than moving them to assisted living/residential care.

Be there if mom/dad is suddenly having problems with a person they've been seated with. The wheels of change can be slow if someone isn't there advocating for mom/dad. By problems I mean others can suddenly become unsuitable table companions through a variety of processes, sometimes someone doesn't even have a clean change in bib and is wearing a filthy bib meal after meal. Thats right across from the table where your mom/dad sits every day folks, sorry, but that should not be allowed by management. Okay, that's only my opinion, but if you've got someone paying $3,400/month in independent living, than everyone has to step up at meal times.

Oh, and do I offend anyone here by pointing out things that can go wrong in these places? That the tv ads are exactly that, just like a glossy brochure is exactly that?

Re: Summerland Seniors Village Problem

PostPosted: Dec 4th, 2012, 6:35 pm
by Queen K
I was going to add that independent living situations are great places to make new friends.

Many people reconnect with people they haven't seen for years or just make new friends.

Sometimes they even get married.

Re: Summerland Seniors Village Problem

PostPosted: Dec 4th, 2012, 6:45 pm
by grammafreddy
Queen K wrote:
Oh, and do I offend anyone here by pointing out things that can go wrong in these places?

Nope, you certainly don't offend me, Queenie. All you have said is stuff I learned looking after my mom and a couple other older folks. Its good to get it out there for people to see - life is really, really hard for older folks.

Queen K wrote:That the tv ads are exactly that, just like a glossy brochure is exactly that?

This is soooo true.

Please keep posting anything you think of that wakes folks up to life as an elderly person.

Re: Summerland Seniors Village Problem

PostPosted: Dec 4th, 2012, 9:18 pm
by motorhomebabe
Queenie ,you have hit the nail right on the head,. Speaking as a retired CHW ,and the mother of someone who got let go from a smaller assisted living because she got so frustrated with the reality, that she tried to go over the Bosses head to get additional help in place.

Re: Summerland Seniors Village Problem

PostPosted: Dec 4th, 2012, 11:47 pm
by bipdl
Queen K wrote:I hope you didn't lose perspective in what I meant by bringing up simple things, like personal provisions, faceclothes etc.

No perspective lost here. I completely agree with your assessments and suggestions, Queen K.

Moreover, you've shed a great deal of light on "what is not provided", so that the unwary and ill-informed readers of this thread might gain a better understanding of how these places work and what they don't include.

Yes, these operators will answer direct questions honestly. But so many people have little if any understanding of what specific questions need to be asked so that they know to what degree they themselves must participate in "topping-up" the individual needs of their loved ones.

Basically, it boils down to determining what's not provided so that one may assess what responsibilities they themselves must assume. There are just too many variables for a one-size-fits-all, blanket approach to facility protocols. It is herein where the gap lies between what management determines it will be responsible for, and what exist as "judgement call" actions taken by employees on behalf of the people they "advocate" for. Problems arise when "advocates" are slapped down (disciplined and even fired) if and whenever they step forward in the interests of improving the lives and comfort of the men and women for whom they care... and this, dear friends, is the crux of the whole "we don't do that here" vs "but they need this service" power play between management and staff. Unfortunately, as can be seen by the tone of some of the earlier posts, there is a tendency to scapegoat those who are voiceless, gagged as a condition of employment.

Re: Summerland Seniors Village Problem

PostPosted: Dec 6th, 2012, 3:35 pm
by Fritzthecat
southernfrau wrote:To the nurse, you can back off a bit. We understand your job is hard to do. But in our case she ate jello pudding and juice, nothing had to be suctioned from her mouth.

I'll address since it was directed at me.
I don't think you do understand. Jello, juice is just as much a choking hazard as solid food. I don't know how many times a person who has a swallowing issue and is on a modified diet with thickened fluids is given regular juice by a family member for what ever reason. I have so many cases of pneumonia start from a person who requires thickened fluids be given regular juice it isn't funny. I'm then told "See they swallowed it just fine!" Truth is, they haven't. It Their gag reflexes can be totally absent. That juice went down alright, right into their lungs in some cases and they can not cough to clear it. Then I have to answer "Why is Mom/Dad so sick with pneumonia? Your poor care has killed them!"

Family members, please talk with your loved ones nurses and listen to what they tell you! It is our job to care for these people and it is what we go to school for and we ahve seen similar cases over and over. Ask yourself" Why would a nurse try to steer me wrong about something?" Like when I am questioned why Mom has thickend juice, or Dad needs a modified diet. Why would I lie to you about htis? What would be my motivation? there is none.

Re: Summerland Seniors Village Problem

PostPosted: Dec 6th, 2012, 6:46 pm
by Queen K
I'll tell everyone what is NOT provided: basic stuff most of us have in a bathroom.

Inside the shower shower mat with good suction cups.
Outside the shower shower mat, with a non-slip rubber backing.
Shower curtain, one that is long enough to actually do the job.

Why are these things important?

Because total they cost the resident about $80, or so, more or less.

But be without them and the cost to IH dealing with a slip and fall is several thousand.

The independent living situations charge you rent regardless if you are there or not, just like a bank still charges a mortgage, only difference is in your own home you stop paying for groceries, but in one of these situations, they don't take a meal portion off the rent if you end up in rehab for months and months.

Re: Summerland Seniors Village Problem

PostPosted: Dec 9th, 2012, 6:53 pm
by gambler
My heart goes out to to Alfredo Bonaldi's family. According to CHBC, he passed away on Friday. Such a sad situation. I'm so sorry for his family. ... story.html

Re: Summerland Seniors Village Problem

PostPosted: Dec 9th, 2012, 7:33 pm
by Queen K
I am sad for his family too.

Food and eating issues for seniors is a difficult thing to handle.

I have no idea why he quit going down for meals, duh, obviously, I've never met him. And adding speculation would be unseemingly.

Re: Summerland Seniors Village Problem

PostPosted: Dec 10th, 2012, 7:01 pm
by metallica
My condolences to the family. Never thought I would add to something like this. A job is a job, regardless of what wage you are paid. Minimum or Maximum. You either like you job or you leave it. To say someone cannot speak out on this abborition of human neglect in a work place is sick. I hope the people responsible will pay for this poor mans neglect. After all he was someones family left in charge of people that were to look after and care for him.