Waste Lots Want Lots...er...wait...

[grammafreddy]

So by that logic seat belts are a waste of money? Why should I wear my seat belt if I'm extra careful, drive the limit, and according to the conditions?

How about because there are other idiots on the road and you need to CYA to protect yourself.

[kumazatheef]

How about because there are other idiots on the road and you need to CYA to protect yourself.

Oh wait wait wait ... so meridians are a waste but seat belts are legit?

[cv23]

Sure, drive to the conditions and the roads ... but there are other people driving as well ... so is it my fault if you run in to me?

So please enlighten us as to just how putting a barrier on the outside of a curve (as is the case in the Mckinley upgrade) protects one driver from being hit by another driver????

[grammafreddy]

Oh wait wait wait ... so meridians are a waste but seat belts are legit?

I didn't say that - I said CYA. If everyone drove like the other guy was out to murder them on the roads and drove defensively, there would be a lot fewer accidents. If people actually drove the speed limit, didn't tailgate, acted with courtesy toward all other drivers, didn't rush up to stop signs and traffic lights and then slam on their brakes and pray they work this time, didn't weave in and out of traffic, didn't eat or read the newspaper or anything else that takes their attention from the road, etc etc etc ... just think how many more mothers, fathers, sisters, brothers, sons and daughters would still be alive today ... and we wouldn't need to waste half a mil on rebuilding a road that people thought was dangerous because they couldn't be bothered or thought they were too special to follow the rules or drive according to conditions.

I'm sorry she's dead because dead isn't good - but there IS a reason she's dead and hundreds of others travel that road and lived.

[Swoop]

quote="grammafreddy"][quote="joer2012"

The internet makes them brave. They would not say this to the faces of the grieving family and friends.

So brave, so anonymous, so very perfect.[/quote]

Sure I would - and I have.

It goes like this ... "I am so sorry to hear XXX has passed away. You are going to miss her. I told her so many times to just slow down on that piece of road. I hope some other young person learns something from XXX's mistake and doesn't bring such sorrow to their family, too. It's never easy." Hugz for all.[/quote]

...ah yes, the all too familiar classic back-peddle double speak - that's not what was inferred...how about you look the grief stricken mother, who has posted on these forums, in the face and spew the same disgusting drivel you and your high horse cohorts here feel so superior in educating the illiterate motoring masses with...you know the words - " stupid, lazy, willful and irresponsible people who don't know enough or care enough"..."People are stupid. And lazy. And willful. And irresponsible. And they die because of that. Then all the other stupid, lazy, willful and irresponsible people come out screaming because they need Mommy to protect all their stupid, lazy, willful and irresponsible offspring from themselves. So Mommy spends a bunch of money and pats herself on the back for being such a good mommy. And the stupid, lazy, willful and irresponsible people and their brats continue on their merry way"...real nice grammafreddy - I'm sure you'd have a real meaningful conversation with this grieving mother who wants nothing more (other than her daughter back) than to possibly educate one more person into not making the same mistake her daughter made and pay the ultimate price for it...I'm truly saddened and frankly disgusted by the complete lack of compassion here...then again, I can't believe I got sucked back into this cesspool of self-righteous keyboard warriors that I previously invoked self exile from in the first place...think I'll go find the door and let myself out again...same crap - same pile - same dogs - no wonder...

[kumazatheef]

So please enlighten us as to just how putting a barrier on the outside of a curve (as is the case in the Mckinley upgrade) protects one driver from being hit by another driver????

I was speaking in terms of generalities for "road upgrades", per some members they believe that upgrades for improvements are wasteful if people were just "better drivers".

Now, as with so many roadways that offered such pleasantries, our money is being spent to ruin those qualities in trade for protecting the minute numbers of people that have an issue with driving on a road with minimal challenges.

If this person was unable to keep control of their car on this stretch...for whatever reason...then is it not safe to assume it was only a matter of time when they were bound to find an accident to get into.

I mean, seriously ...

[grammafreddy]

...ah yes, the all too familiar classic back-peddle double speak - that's not what was inferred...how about you look the grief stricken mother, who has posted on these forums, in the face and spew the same disgusting drivel you and your high horse cohorts here feel so superior in educating the illiterate motoring masses with...you know the words - " stupid, lazy, willful and irresponsible people who don't know enough or care enough"..."People are stupid. And lazy. And willful. And irresponsible. And they die because of that. Then all the other stupid, lazy, willful and irresponsible people come out screaming because they need Mommy to protect all their stupid, lazy, willful and irresponsible offspring from themselves. So Mommy spends a bunch of money and pats herself on the back for being such a good mommy. And the stupid, lazy, willful and irresponsible people and their brats continue on their merry way"...real nice grammafreddy - I'm sure you'd have a real meaningful conversation with this grieving mother who wants nothing more (other than her daughter back) than to possibly educate one more person into not making the same mistake her daughter made and pay the ultimate price for it...I'm truly saddened and frankly disgusted by the complete lack of compassion here...then again, I can't believe I got sucked back into this cesspool of self-righteous keyboard warriors that I previously invoked self exile from in the first place...think I'll go find the door and let myself out again...same crap - same pile - same dogs - no wonder...

And I bet you think I meant the girl's mom when I said, "Mommy", eh?

Mommy is government ... and now that Mommy has improved the road, will people slow down, pay attention and do what they are supposed to do when driving? Am betting not - am betting they will now drive even more foolishly because some safety guards have been built in to protect them from their stupidity.

Its always a shame when people die needlessly. Everyone has someone who loves them. Why would anyone inflict this pain of permanent loss on their loved ones by being so stupid as to not obey the rules of the road? That's just sooo selfish. Is getting to where you are going in a hurry more important than going home to your kids at the end of the day?

[kumazatheef]

I didn't say that - I said CYA. If everyone drove like the other guy was out to murder them on the roads and drove defensively, there would be a lot fewer accidents. If people actually drove the speed limit, didn't tailgate, acted with courtesy toward all other drivers, didn't rush up to stop signs and traffic lights and then slam on their brakes and pray they work this time, didn't weave in and out of traffic, didn't eat or read the newspaper or anything else that takes their attention from the road, etc etc etc ... just think how many more mothers, fathers, sisters, brothers, sons and daughters would still be alive today ... and we wouldn't need to waste half a mil on rebuilding a road that people thought was dangerous because they couldn't be bothered or thought they were too special to follow the rules or drive according to conditions.

I'm sorry she's dead because dead isn't good - but there IS a reason she's dead and hundreds of others travel that road and lived.

So ... it is no longer the government's mandate/responsibility to provide safe road conditions? I'm not saying we should rely on them, but it should be a reasonable expectation in some circumstances .. otherwise what's the point of sidewalks?

Has the official report been release about the cause of the accident?

Seriously, the same reason people don't like this fix, is the same reason people pushed for getting the highway fixed through Lake Country.

[grammafreddy]

I think you are mixing up willful and destructive driving habits with common sense public safety. Sidewalks specify where people and vehicles are supposed to be. Lines on the road do the same thing. They say, "This is your place". Now its up to people to make sure they be in their place and be there in a safe manner. The problems arise (and people die) when stupid, lazy, willful and irresponsible people don't think they need to follow the rules. The road along the reservoir was okay - if a person drove it responsibly.

[johnhenry]

So by that logic seat belts are a waste of money? Why should I wear my seat belt if I'm extra careful, drive the limit, and according to the conditions?

Seatbelt laws were brought in due to irresponsible drivers. Jut like these road improvements.

[LoneWolf_53]

Are you serious??

Don't get me wrong I'm all for encouraging people to drive appropriately and frustrated at the inappropriate drivers, and if necessary then yes, actually slow down.
... but you can't honestly say that improving a road is a bad idea? You can point to any road in the Okanagan and foolishly make the argument that the road shouldn't be improved because "it's good enough" ... I mean, why put up barriers? why put in a median? why do any road safety changes?

Improving a road is not a bad idea, but in so far as this particular topic goes, I think the money would be better spent putting divider barriers on the stretch of highway along Duck Lake. It sees far more traffic volume in a day and has had quite a number of bad wrecks on it over the years, yet it remains untouched, and money gets spent on a minor feeder road into an area that the residents haven't had any difficulty getting into for quite some time.

The Okanagan is rife with winding roads, curves, and steep grades, but you simply can't fix every spot on the chance that someone might go off the road there. Far more cost effective to take drastic measures to separate careless drivers from their electronic gadgets, more often than not the cause of many accidents these days.

In other words in some situations it makes sense to improve the road, while in others not so much.

[dodgerdodge]

I think you are mixing up willful and destructive driving habits with common sense public safety. Sidewalks specify where people and vehicles are supposed to be. Lines on the road do the same thing. They say, "This is your place". Now its up to people to make sure they be in their place and be there in a safe manner. The problems arise (and people die) when stupid, lazy, willful and irresponsible people don't think they need to follow the rules. The road along the reservoir was okay - if a person drove it responsibly.

Yep. They spent a bunch of taxpayers money in West Kelowna upgrading the Butt Rd/Hwy 97 intersection by adding in left turn lights and changing the sequence to stop all these accidents from suicidal drivers cutting across in front of moving vehicles and guess what, there have been 2 accidents at this intersection in as many weeks.
Spend the money to make roads safer and the idiots still end up smashing into one another.

[kumazatheef]

Improving a road is not a bad idea, but in so far as this particular topic goes, I think the money would be better spent putting divider barriers on the stretch of highway along Duck Lake.

I'd be in favour of that ... however, in this case the money came from local budget as it's a local road ... Since that stretch of road (Hwy 97) is under jurisdiction of the Province MOT it's under a separate budget.

Something else to consider in this situation: everyone that says "I drive the road all the time and have no problem" ... great for you, you know what to expect ... but in this situation, with the driver being from out of town, she most likely wasn't familiar with the roads ... not to say that she shouldn't have driven as such, but how many times have you been on an unknown road and something took you by surprise. Good golly, it happens.

We can sit here and whinge about what "should" happen, but the reality is the road received improvements ... and if you're not in favour of improving things then, well ... good luck ...

[grammafreddy]

but in this situation, with the driver being from out of town, she most likely wasn't familiar with the roads ...

Her mother said ...

Shayla resided in Kamloops with her boyfriend David. She was in her 3rd year of University and wanted to become a Social Worker. Shayla had travelled from Kamloops to Kelowna recently to see her newborn nephew that had just been born. In her later years, Shayla grew up in the house on Mckinely Landing and my home at the coast. She KNEW the Mckinley Road and how treacherous it could be! She waited late in life to learn how to drive and took over a years worth of lessons; including defensive driving.

viewtopic.php?f=23&t=37198&p=1144573&hilit=+Shayla+Driver+#p1144573

[5VP]