WFN rights

[zzontar]

I just want an answer about the apartheid

I guess you missed that part or are scared to answer.

[Disneyland]

I guess you missed that part or are scared to answer.

Not scared to answer but your question has no relavance. There are a lot of other facts that come into play that you are not interested in learning. I don't feel the need to answer ignorant questions.

[zzontar]

You have made so many comments about WFN and when anybody suggests anything contrary to your opinion you dismiss it. You have one purpose, to continually push your own belief. You do not understand the concept of private property rights, WFN Beach.

Hmmmm, looking back over this thread, it seems I've responded to everything directed at me. Perhaps you're getting "responded to" and "dismissed" mixed up. I'm not surprised you didn't want to answer the question, either. The whites in Africa probably told the blacks they had no concept of private property as well.

[theyeti]

u sir r quite offensive and outrageous !

i dont know how u can compare a countries policies to that of a small group .

[zzontar]

u sir r quite offensive and outrageous !

i dont know how u can compare a countries policies to that of a small group .

Actually, what was outrageous and offensive was the way the whites segregated the blacks in Africa. Once a nation is allowed to exclude other nations from one thing, then another and so on, where do you think it should stop? I'm guessing that as you too refuse to answer the question and tend to disagree with me that you are in favor of apartheid, but I guess there will always be racist people who encourage these things to happen.

The comparison is in exclusion, in case you still don't get it.

[theyeti]

it is bogus . i can exclude whoever i want from my home . does that make me evil ?

[zzontar]

it is bogus . i can exclude whoever i want from my home . does that make me evil ?

You really, honestly believe apartheid was about not letting anyone into your home? If you want to discuss the topic, do some research first. Google away.

[theyeti]

wfn school and apartheid r not the same thing tho

[jimsenchuk]

Deleted by Trip. Perhaps a pm would be more suitable.

[Triple 6]

Back on topic please people.

[zzontar]

wfn school and apartheid r not the same thing tho

When making a comparison, you can't just mention one thing or it's not a comparison.

com·par·i·son noun \kəm-ˈper-ə-sən, -ˈpa-rə-\

Definition of COMPARISON

1
: the act or process of comparing: as
a : the representing of one thing or person as similar to or like another
b : an examination of two or more items to establish similarities and dissimilarities <his faults seem minor by comparison>
2
: identity of features : similarity <several points of comparison between the two>

So you see, you can't compare one thing to the exact same thing or it's not a comparison, so thanks for informing me that they are not the same but I already knew that. Now if you want to explain WHY it's different, I'm all ears.

[Graham Adder]

The governing bodies of the people of this country
...are trying to find ways to create a system of balance.
It's not being done correct...yet.
The system is better than it was ten years ago...which is better than it was ten years before that...ten years before...and so on.
Change is not easy when so much damage has been done.
You're 'right' Zontar, in being offended by the way the system operates in its current state.
You don't have to come off as a hateful racist to shed light on your displeasure.
You can also drop ideas and opinions in much less offensive ways to create open dialogue and promote the freedom of speech/written word we all have.

The system we collectively as a country are painfully, slowly trying to mend, has damages from far below the skin that you, myself nor any other member of these forums has the right or the knowledge to judge as we are not capable of speaking the truth for everyone. We can only speak our own truth.

If you could find a voice to express yourself without coming off like you dislike First Nations people, and use diplomacy in your correspondence, it might serve a fruitful purpose rather than shutting the topic down...again...for fear of having to try to talk sensible with someone unwilling to budge from their soap box.

You're not adding value.
I know you're capable.
You know you are.
Why not express yourself from the side of wanting to make positive change without tossing diseased blankets into the potlatch.

I agree things are not good. I also agree they need to be changed.
I don't agree with statements that condemn and already weakened society.
We need to be supportive...as a broad community...to try our best to preserve what is left and make it work in a system that promotes equality and working together.

Maybe the writing on the wall could use a little revision. Gramma told me, "Stop trying to calculate the difference between people. People don't need division."

- Shane Koyczan.

PROFANITY ALERT: but worth it imo

[zzontar]

Graham, maybe a look from a different perspective will help you understand my frustration. I was born in Canada, yet there are places I cannot live because I am not a native Canadian. I was brainwashed from an early age to believe all white men were responsible for stealing their land. Actually, people have been brainwashed so badly that logic has taken a backseat, here's an example of 2 phrases you might here from both sides, A: "Indians are lazy and don't want to work" and B "the white man stole our land." Accusing someone of stealing your land is much more serious than accusing someone of being lazy, and the percentage of white people responsible for stealing their land is so miniscule it's a fraction of a percent, yet the percentage of unemployed natives is more than twice the Canadian average yet, so most would find "A" offensive, incorrect, and racist when in fact B is much more so.

Now, add to the fact that if I said "Indians are lazy and don't want to work," I would be considered racist, then Chief Louie says:

Chief Clarence Louie Osoyoos BC speaking in Northern Alberta :



Speaking to a large aboriginal conference and some of the attendees, including a few who hold high office, have straggled in.

'I can't stand people who are late, he says into the microphone. Indian Time doesn't cut it. '
Some giggle, but no one is quite sure how far he is going to go. Just sit back and listen:

'My first rule for success is Show up on time.'
'My No. 2 rule for success is follow Rule No. 1.'
'If your life sucks, it's because you suck.'
'Quit your sniffling.'
'Join the real world. Go to school, or get a job.'
'Get off of welfare. Get off your butt.'

He pauses, seeming to gauge whether he dare, then does.
'People often say to me, How you doin'? Geez I'm working with Indians what do you think?'
Now they are openly laughing ... applauding. Clarence Louie is everything that was advertised and more.

'Our ancestors worked for a living, he says. So should you.'

He is, fortunately, aboriginal himself. If someone else stood up and said these things - the white columnist standing there with his mouth open, for example - you'd be seen as a racist. Instead, Chief Clarence Louie is seen, increasingly, as one of the most interesting and innovative native leaders in the country even though he avoids national politics.

... and he's considered innovative. How this not leave white people scratching their heads?

For the natives who are still directly affected by the government or church who abused them I don't have a problem supporting out of my tax dollars, but here's an example of what I'm against: I knew a guy in Alberta a few decades ago who, when he became of age, got a free house on the res and close to $100,000.00. He was as blonde and white as could be, but his grandmother who he had never met was status Indian. He had no healing that had to be done, yet the settlement opened wounds in the taxpayers.

Another time there was a technical problem at a wedding reception on the Enoch reserve, so I was asked by a friend to save the day, which I gladly did. As he was driving me through the res he was pointing out the different houses that sold different drugs, and there were many, mostly crack houses, and very run down. Picture buying your kid a car and they never wash it and just drive the crap out of it without a thank-you, this is how many white people feel about the housing.

I've heard my whole life how the natives hate the white man's ways, yet from their beds to showers, to hospitals and vehicles, most everything they use and enjoy is a creation of the white man, but the times I've ever heard a native being thankful for these things? ZERO.

Every single person on the planet has ancestors who had to hunt and fish for a living, yet only the natives demanded they could fish and hunt all year long to keep up with tradition. Then I see them taking their vehicles to go hunting and fishing with rods and rifles, not too traditional IMO. It also confuses me when they cry that they want their ways back, then complain that the government isn't giving them adequate housing and services. Many reserves are plenty big enough to live off the land, and if they lived in their traditional way, they wouldn't need ANY support from the government, yet few if any choose this route. As far as having lost how to hunt and fish and make teepees and use plants as medicine and so on, I could learn all of that on google in a short time so I can't see why they couldn't. Perhaps if they do want to go back to their way of life, the government should also hire the elders to give courses and then let them live independently without having to rely on the government or any money.

Offering natives status cards just to see them abused is another thorn in my side which costs taxpayers plenty, as well as the break in tobacco which also gets abused, costing taxpayers many more billions.

Then there's hearing for so many years that they just wanted an apology. Once the apology was given, nothing changed. Of course there's two sides to every story, but that's part of mine. Graham, what do you think they want?

[Graham Adder]

You don't have to come off as a hateful racist to shed light on your displeasure.
You can also drop ideas and opinions in much less offensive ways.

If you could find a voice to express yourself without coming off like you dislike First Nations people, and use diplomacy in your correspondence, it might serve a fruitful purpose rather than shutting the topic down...again...for fear of having to try to talk sensible with someone unwilling to budge from their soap box.

You're not adding value.
I know you're capable.
You know you are.
Why not express yourself from the side of wanting to make positive change without tossing diseased blankets into the potlatch.

I know you're capable.

I stand corrected.
You're not capable.

[zzontar]

A racist is against a race no matter what. As I mentioned, I had a friend on the Enoch reserve, a native friend, and he wasn't the only one. A racist generally will not have friends who are of the race they hate. I have many posts speaking out against things white people have done as well, this doesn't mean I'm racist against whites either. Do you think Chief Louie isn't capable either? I mention how I was against the whites segregating the blacks in apartheid and not a peep. I mention how I'm against WFN segregating whites and I'm a racist. Go figure.

I'd love to see the natives being happy, successful people without outside help, so being frustrated that things are going so poorly when the potential to do well is there is more frustration than racism. I asked you what you think they want and there was no reply, why not?

Edit: If you feel there's a part of my previous post that is incorrect, feel free to point it out and we'll discuss it.