Bill C-45

[Tony]

There's actually laws in place to protect our environment. This, it would appear, it the First Nations people calling foul, yet again. Maybe what C-45 does is make it an even playing field for EVERYONE. That way, no matter what nationality you are, no matter what creed or colour you are, you can go out and forge a living for yourself and your family so the Government doesn't have to support you anymore - whether you're native, or a regular Joe on welfare.

Once again, take a lead from Chief Louie in Osoyoos.

[Tony]

I know I'd find it somewhere....

Chief Clarence Louie Osoyoos BC: speaking in Northern Alberta


Does Chief Clarence Louie have an attitude and a wisdom that may be required to bust loose from mass poverty and third world living conditions on Indian reserves? Is his a blueprint for economic healing as Chief Andy Chelsea is for emotional, psychological and spiritual healing? 80% of the people who hear them do not agree with them but 100% cannot deny that what they have done WORKS!!! AND, they did it and continue to do it with integrity, commitment and brutal honesty.


Chief Clarence Louie Osoyoos BC speaking in Northern Alberta :



Speaking to a large aboriginal conference and some of the attendees, including a few who hold high office, have straggled in.

'I can't stand people who are late, he says into the microphone. Indian Time doesn't cut it. '
Some giggle, but no one is quite sure how far he is going to go. Just sit back and listen:

'My first rule for success is Show up on time.'
'My No. 2 rule for success is follow Rule No. 1.'
'If your life sucks, it's because you suck.'
'Quit your sniffling.'
'Join the real world. Go to school, or get a job.'
'Get off of welfare. Get off your butt.'

He pauses, seeming to gauge whether he dare, then does.
'People often say to me, How you doin'? Geez I'm working with Indians what do you think?'
Now they are openly laughing ... applauding. Clarence Louie is everything that was advertised and more.

'Our ancestors worked for a living, he says. So should you.'

He is, fortunately, aboriginal himself. If someone else stood up and said these things - the white columnist standing there with his mouth open, for example - you'd be seen as a racist. Instead, Chief Clarence Louie is seen, increasingly, as one of the most interesting and innovative native leaders in the country even though he avoids national politics.

He has come here to Fort McMurray because the aboriginal community needs, desperately, to start talking about economic development and what all this multibillion-dollar oil madness might mean,for good and for bad.

Clarence Louie is chief and CEO of the Osoyoos Band in British Columbia's South Okanagan. He is 44 years old, though he looks like he would have been an infant when he began his remarkable 20-year-run as chief. He took a band that had been declared bankrupt and taken over by Indian Affairs and he has turned in into an inspiration.

In 2000, the band set a goal of becoming self-sufficient in five years. They're there.

The Osoyoos, 432 strong, own, among other things, a vineyard, a winery, a golf course and a tourist resort, and they are partners in the Baldy Mountain ski development. They have more businesses per capita than any other first nation in Canada.

There are not only enough jobs for everyone, there are so many jobs being created that there are now members of 13 other tribal communities working for the Osoyoos. The little band contributes $40-million a year to the area economy.

Chief Louie is tough. He is as proud of the fact that his band fires its own people as well as hires them. He has his mottos posted throughout the Rez. He believes there is no such thing as consensus, that there will always be those who disagree. And, he says, he is milquetoast compared to his own mother when it comes to how today's lazy aboriginal youth, almost exclusively male, should be dealt with.

Rent a plane, she told him, and fly them all to Iraq. Dump'em off and all the ones who make it back are keepers. Right on, Mom.
The message he has brought here to the Chipewyan, Dene and Cree who live around the oil sands is equally direct: 'Get involved, create jobs and meaningful jobs, not just window dressing for the oil companies.'

'The biggest employer,' he says, 'shouldn't be the band office.'

He also says the time has come to get over it. 'No more whining about 100-year-old failed experiments.' 'No foolishly looking to the Queen to protect rights.'

Louie says aboriginals here and along the Mackenzie Valley should not look at any sharing in development as rocking-chair money but as investment opportunity to create sustainable businesses. He wants them to move beyond entry-level jobs to real jobs they earn all the way to the boardrooms. He wants to see business manners develop: showing up on time, working extra hours. The business lunch, he says, should be drive through, and then right back at it.

'You're going to lose your language and culture faster in poverty than you will in economic development', he says to those who say he is ignoring tradition.

Tough talk, at times shocking talk given the audience, but on this day in this community, they took it and, judging by the response, they loved it.

Eighty per cent like what I have to say, Louie says, twenty per cent don't. I always say to the 20 per cent, 'Get over it.' 'Chances are you're never going to see me again and I'm never going to see you again.' 'Get some counselling.'

The first step, he says, is all about leadership. He prides himself on being a stay-home chief who looks after the potholes in his own backyard and wastes no time running around fighting 100-year-old battles.

'The biggest challenge will be how you treat your own people.'

'Blaming government? That time is over.'

[Dawnland]

Tony, you can go back to the herd and the truck will be here for you shortly.
Chief Clarence Louis is about business and that is great, we all applaud his community for working so hard to get where they are. So you think he built that community with his own two hands? No, his people were there working and he had the support of the city of Osoyoos. This issue is not about poverty, it's about clean water and the government unilaterally changing regulations so they can sell resources to Chinese mining companies and bitumen producers.
The NWPA ensured that forestry, mining, pipelines and development could not disrupt or otherwise put in jeopardy the water sources. The reason it is the First Nations leading the charge on this is that the government has a fiduciary duty to consult when making decisions that effect First Nations Lands and resources, in this case the government did not consult any people at all. Because that process was not adhered to, this legislation can be overturned and the water saved.

[GEW]

Quote: This issue is not about poverty, it's about clean water and the government unilaterally changing regulations so they can sell resources to Chinese mining companies and bitumen producers."

So Dawnland, if we don't sell our rescources to the Chinese, what do we do with them? Leave them in the ground doing nothing while the entire country sits on welfare. Perhaps we sell them to the US? Can't do that their economy has stalled. Like it or not China is the only country buying anything right now,(they have slowed lately too) and as a low populated rescource rich country, we can do well by selling to them. How many tens of thousands of people to the oil sands keep busy right here in this valley? Most of them doing very well financially and giving back to the tax base. There are all kinds of mines and sawmills right here in the interior also selling to China. Without that what do we have? All we have then, is an entire country drawing welfare.
This is just another example of the soul destroying left wing, trying to impose doom and gloom scenarios because their agenda of free handouts for all is not being fufilled by the current government.
Awating left wing rhetoric now.......

[Dawnland]

GEW;
I am so grateful for the economic development that moves forward in a responsible way. The oilsands development was not a unilateral development, there was an extensive consultation process that happened and agreements made with the First Nations in that area. The same can be said for the forestry industry here in BC (now). There are processes for all levels of government and business that must be followed. If a local business gets federal approval for mining in the City of Penticton, don't you think that Dan Ashton would scrape together all the lawyers he could find before one piece of dirt was removed from Main Street? What if SunCor decided to mine above the city's watershed? This is the potential we are facing, in the name of a quick buck for Harper an a fraction of a penny for the province. Like I said this is not a money issue, the law is the law and Harper broke it when he put those amendments forward without consultation.
You may now proceed to the truck...

[GEW]

Dawnland,

Your arguments about environmental protection are valid. You mentioned if Suncor were to mine above the city's watershed. I might note that there is a moratorium on uranium mining in that area, at this time. There are also moratorims on oil drilling off BC's coast in the straight of Georgia. I agree that we shouldn't rape and pillage everything in sight.
My sore spot( and where my partial support of bill C-45 is based) is that first nations have been able to legally challenge projects already underway, anytime they feel their pockets aren't being lined enough; then they hide behind environmental arguments. Without naming names or locations, this happened on one project I was working on recently. A company had spent millions on mining and construction equipment because they had signed a contract on an already approved mine build. Halfway through the job one of the local bands took the project to court over money; they were upset that the mine had not hired enough band members- was there anybody qualified for the jobs or not?!
The entire project was held up, workers were sent home and payments on machinery still needed to be made. Why couldn't these concerns have been brought up before the permit was granted in the first place? It is not fair that one group of people can stall contracts part way through and hold contractors and their employees hostage who had nothing to do with the initial approval process.

[Dawnland]

GEW;
Do you know why there is a moratorium on uranium mining in that area? PIB Reserve #2 is located on Carmi and it is because of the action of the First Nations of this territory that your water is protected.
I do not feel that putting corporations and individuals out of jobs just because one party says,"Screw you guys, we're taking our toys and going home" I understand how frustrating it must have been for all the employees to get told, "It's because the Indians are *bleep* off" I would like to point out that in a recent local development, the contractor was awarded the job based on employing a certain amount of First Nations people for construction (yes there are plenty of qualified people) but once the job was started, within the first few weeks a large percentage were 'let go'. One worker I spoke with was let go for not bringing a lunch. His employer claimed that he must be unreliable because he can't make a lunch and therefore cannot work for him. (He was a single dad at the hospital with his baby who had an ear infection but still made it to work on time) This worker tried to take it to labour relations but, the probationary period was not up and he didn't have a leg to stand on. Besides, when someone hears and unreliable Indian got fired, who's going to question that?
It has only been a few years that First Nations actually had the rights to negotiate for their fair shake and the duty to consult is finally being practised (Bill C-45 not withstanding), but it could be better for everyone. We just have to stop having overpaid elected blowhards make empty promises to people at both tables.

[Tony]

Tony, you can go back to the herd and the truck will be here for you shortly.
Chief Clarence Louis is about business and that is great, we all applaud his community for working so hard to get where they are. So you think he built that community with his own two hands? No, his people were there working and he had the support of the city of Osoyoos. This issue is not about poverty, it's about clean water and the government unilaterally changing regulations so they can sell resources to Chinese mining companies and bitumen producers.
The NWPA ensured that forestry, mining, pipelines and development could not disrupt or otherwise put in jeopardy the water sources. The reason it is the First Nations leading the charge on this is that the government has a fiduciary duty to consult when making decisions that effect First Nations Lands and resources, in this case the government did not consult any people at all. Because that process was not adhered to, this legislation can be overturned and the water saved.

Of course his people were working with him, and so are the Towns of Osoyoos and Oliver. He is a great example of not whining about issues, but actually dealing with them, working with everyone involved, and finding a solution without protesting. It is about business. Business is what creates money, and therefore creates income for all residents. If we have resources to sell, then sell them. Lord knows we sell most of our hydro to the US, and a pretty good chunk of our fresh water also goes south. Good on the Government to find other buyers for what we have. It's a little bit like oil - if we got - sell it. It drives the economy so we can afford our social programmes.

[fluffy]

I think that native opinions have been largely ignored for sometime in Canada, and for way too long. I also believe that the Harper government has been systematically dismantling our environmental protection legislation specifically to pave the way for economic development to occur in a less than responsible manner.

I applaud the efforts of the aboriginal community and the "Idle No More" movement in their efforts to bring these concerns to the forefront. If they can keep the environmental focus front and centre I can see this having a significant impact in correcting the government's inaction on these issues.

[twobits]

GEW;
Do you know why there is a moratorium on uranium mining in that area? PIB Reserve #2 is located on Carmi and it is because of the action of the First Nations of this territory that your water is protected.
I do not feel that putting corporations and individuals out of jobs just because one party says,"Screw you guys, we're taking our toys and going home" I understand how frustrating it must have been for all the employees to get told, "It's because the Indians are *bleep* off" I would like to point out that in a recent local development, the contractor was awarded the job based on employing a certain amount of First Nations people for construction (yes there are plenty of qualified people) but once the job was started, within the first few weeks a large percentage were 'let go'. One worker I spoke with was let go for not bringing a lunch. His employer claimed that he must be unreliable because he can't make a lunch and therefore cannot work for him. (He was a single dad at the hospital with his baby who had an ear infection but still made it to work on time) This worker tried to take it to labour relations but, the probationary period was not up and he didn't have a leg to stand on. Besides, when someone hears and unreliable Indian got fired, who's going to question that?
It has only been a few years that First Nations actually had the rights to negotiate for their fair shake and the duty to consult is finally being practised (Bill C-45 not withstanding), but it could be better for everyone. We just have to stop having overpaid elected blowhards make empty promises to people at both tables.

Typical First Nations rhetoric. New year, same script. I find it somewhat amusing how many of the environmental concerns are somehow mitigated when a big enough piece of the action is offered up. You have a serious public relations problem that is deeply rooted from years of drum beating protests that were in most cases nothing more than thinly veiled ransom demands under the banner of saving the environment. You want to earn respect at the table? Then stop opposing virtually every proposed project because it infringes on some obscure traditional territory. It is not even possible to propose a project that is not part of someones traditional territory because you cannot even decide among yourselves what your traditional territories are and collectively claim a land mass that in total is 30% larger than the entire province. Rather than saying no we can't do that, say yes we can if these concerns are addressed and put your money where your mouth is and invest and participate as partners and not just gratuitous recipients of downstream cash payments. There are a few bands in the province that have seen the light and moved forward in a business like fashion like this and surprise surprise, they are the only ones that prosper and have pulled their people out of the cycle of poverty thru opportunity. Unfortunately the PIB is not one of them yet. I have seen some reason for hope lately with JK but unfortunately you still seem to be suffering the lingering effects of Stewarts drum beating mentality.
I don't happen to believe c45 is stripping all environmental protections. They are clearly still there. What has been removed is several uneeded layers of beaurocracy and redundancy that wasted millions and delayed everything to a decade long excercise of frustration. Why do we need the Feds doing a study, the Province doing the same study, and sometimes Cities and Municipalities duplicating. Then the debate begins when all do not exactly align and we all end up in a very expensive *bleep*. One study involving all stakeholders makes much more sense and the Feds don't need to be stakeholders in every project that comes down the pipe. That's all they are saying......the environmental laws are still there. Just because they have removed themselves from oversight of many streams and rivers does not mean anyone can put a discharge pipe into them without scrutiny or approvals.

[fluffy]

These issues are a lot larger than the PIB, twobits. I agree that there is a credibility issue with a lot of native protests, but in the big picture this is largely the white man's doing. A couple of centuries of solving "the indian problem" by throwing money at it has created a whole new set of problems, but that's not really the issue here. On the environmental forefront the Canadian approach to the looming crisis has been dismally ineffectual from the PM's office right on down to you and me. We spurt and sparkle about the need for environmental awareness and then hop into our SUV's for a quarter mile trip to the store. The aboriginal community with its background as stewards of nature is the perfect front line to maybe get the ball rolling on actually doing something. If petty politics and self-serving financial agendas take the forefront then the push will ultimately fail, but in principle I see this as a good thing.

[ToddT]

Typical First Nations rhetoric. New year, same script. I find it somewhat amusing how many of the environmental concerns are somehow mitigated when a big enough piece of the action is offered up. You have a serious public relations problem that is deeply rooted from years of drum beating protests that were in most cases nothing more than thinly veiled ransom demands under the banner of saving the environment. You want to earn respect at the table? Then stop opposing virtually every proposed project because it infringes on some obscure traditional territory. It is not even possible to propose a project that is not part of someones traditional territory because you cannot even decide among yourselves what your traditional territories are and collectively claim a land mass that in total is 30% larger than the entire province. Rather than saying no we can't do that, say yes we can if these concerns are addressed and put your money where your mouth is and invest and participate as partners and not just gratuitous recipients of downstream cash payments. There are a few bands in the province that have seen the light and moved forward in a business like fashion like this and surprise surprise, they are the only ones that prosper and have pulled their people out of the cycle of poverty thru opportunity. Unfortunately the PIB is not one of them yet. I have seen some reason for hope lately with JK but unfortunately you still seem to be suffering the lingering effects of Stewarts drum beating mentality.
I don't happen to believe c45 is stripping all environmental protections. They are clearly still there. What has been removed is several uneeded layers of beaurocracy and redundancy that wasted millions and delayed everything to a decade long excercise of frustration. Why do we need the Feds doing a study, the Province doing the same study, and sometimes Cities and Municipalities duplicating. Then the debate begins when all do not exactly align and we all end up in a very expensive *bleep*. One study involving all stakeholders makes much more sense and the Feds don't need to be stakeholders in every project that comes down the pipe. That's all they are saying......the environmental laws are still there. Just because they have removed themselves from oversight of many streams and rivers does not mean anyone can put a discharge pipe into them without scrutiny or approvals.

while I agree completely, the bold part above was my favorite.

[Dawnland]

Ahhh twobits;

Glad to see you finally rubbed a couple of brain cells together enough to provide some regurgitated conservative rhetoric for the uninformed to grab hold of. Do you feel better about yourself? Now, if you can focus for just two more minutes, you'll see that this is about a signed deal, held up in supreme court, three years ago, that Harper has blatantly ignored to push through this legislation. There was a duty to consult with the people that was not adhered to. Plain and simple.
If you're just on here to engage in a stereotypical rant about lazy Indians looking for a handout, you're in the wrong forum and the wrong century. If the government tries to cram legislation down your throat without due process and you rant, rave and protest, why is it so bad when a whole Nation of Indigenous people do it?
By the way we are not so naive to think that a drainage pipe is being inserted but you better believe that there is a pipeline ready to cross right through some very pristine navigable water sources and all the trees cleared above more than one watershed so that access is available for REPAIRS and EMERGENCY SPILLS. Gawd, why is it that you'll just take it lying on your back by your government without questioning or speaking up, it's sad that the First Nations are out there starving and protesting and you call them lazy.

Hey guys, your truck driver is here....

[Dawnland]

ToddT;
What is it specifically about Bill C-45 that you wholeheartedly agree with? Or, were you just getting all tingly in your special place when you read about the *bleep* and wanted to be invited?

I also have to include some very important fact about the First Nations in BC and Canada that you may not realize:
1949 First Nations people in British Columbia are permitted to vote in provincial elections.
1960 First Nations people in Canada are permitted to vote in federal elections.
1972 Indian Control of Indian Education policy document written by National Indian Brotherhood advocating parental responsibility and local control over First Nations education. This policy is accepted by federal government a year later.
1970s-1980s Increased First Nations action and the evolution of political structures. The province still will not recognize aboriginal title nor negotiate treaties. Tribal Councils continue to emerge representatives of historic tribal groups.

For a Nation of people who have only been recognized as people for the past 63 years provincially and 52 years federally, the First Nations are doing a great job of ensuring that their rights are respected. I'm sure some people on here are older than these dates. Can you imagine how encouraged you would be to take part in a system that didn't recognize your rights as a human being until you fought back and challenged the norm? The First Nations political system that the governments recognize have only been in existence for 40-50 years. The Government of Canada has been victimizing people since 1867 and yet we still think that it'll magically work.

[twobits]

Yawn