Incident at Big White

[baconbits]

http://www.am1150.ca/News/Local/story.aspx?ID=1857852

There is no water at Gem Lake.

I'm guessing that the incident must have happened at the bottom of powder chair where there is a pond. I had to rescue a kid from there a few years back.

[DaveC]

There is no water at Gem Lake.

I'm guessing that the incident must have happened at the bottom of powder chair where there is a pond. I had to rescue a kid from there a few years back.

Hope the person is ok!

[ferri]

here's a link to the article: http://www.castanet.net/news/Central-Ok ... -Big-White

[Liquidnails]

There is actually a small pond just past the top of the Gem Lake Chair. How someone could end up in it this time of year is beyond me though. There is also a pond near the bottom area of the Cliff Chair, though the picture associated with the story is looking down the Powder Chair to the pond there.

Edit: looks like he was stuck between runs. A good reminder to ski/ride with a buddy, especially if you are unfamiliar with the terrain. It's pretty easy to get lost, or end up somewhere you weren't planning to be over on that side of the hill. Glad they got him before the weather and his condition got any worse.

[logman]

According to the scanner ths afternoon he was pulled from water and did not survive. Michael J. can fluff it up all he wants. Maybe a full time EMT staff could have helped probably would not have hurt.Have they pulled the provincial staff yet! I heard one cop say 'you know how this will end' and another request the sudden death file.

[Liquidnails]

If that's the case and word gets out, I'm sure a stink will be raised regarding the EMT situation.

[baconbits]

Here's an update on what happened

http://www.chbcnews.ca/man+found+upside ... story.html

[Piecemaker]

Laying for several hours in the cold with one's head in a drainage ditch is the problem here, not lack of an ambulance on stand-by.

[dreamon]

Laying for several hours in the cold with one's head in a drainage ditch is the problem here, not lack of an ambulance on stand-by.

Exactly.

Someone more knowledgeable in first aid correct if need be, but isn't hypothermia and/or near drowning something that the ski patrol can deal with? What would an EMT and ambulance do more or better that the ski patrol couldn't in this case? Except provide peace of mind.

[janalta]

Laying for several hours in the cold with one's head in a drainage ditch is the problem here, not lack of an ambulance on stand-by.

Exactly what I was about to post.
As soon as he was found, he recieved medical attention and was then treated by a doctor on the hill before being transported to the hospital.
Last time I checked, a medical doctor actually has more training than an EMT

[DaveC]

Exactly.

Someone more knowledgeable in first aid correct if need be, but isn't hypothermia and/or near drowning something that the ski patrol can deal with? What would an EMT and ambulance do more or better that the ski patrol couldn't in this case? Except provide peace of mind.

Hi, the answer is yes, within limits. Hypothermia is not a discrete state, it is a continuum, with one end being death. People are hypothermic when their body core temperature drops beyond a certain point (usually 35C but variable depending on the literature). The more their core temperature drops, the further the subject is along the continuum.

Treating a hypothermic subject requries more training, resources and skills the farther the person is along that continuum ( other factors such as their other health issues and cardiac fitness etc. also play a role of course).

For example, a mildly hypothermic subject can be successfully treated by someone with no training simply by getting them out fof the cold and allowing them to warm up. A profoundly hypothermic subject needs the full resources of a first-rate hospital and trauma team if they are going to survive, and even that may not be enough.

So the answer is, the Ski Patrol has lots of experience treating hypothermia and can manage most of the cases they encounter without assistance. An EMT can handle more complex cases, an ER even more complex etc. but having an EMT on the hill may not make any difference in most cases.

It would not make any sense to have a fully staffed trauma OR on site at the hill. However, at some point thats what will be required to save someone's life. THe rest of the time, it would be an epic waste of resources, such a waste that in fact it would cost lives in another area.

The balance that everyone is looking for is how to best distribute limited resources to serve the population at need and use the resources efficiently. Its not an exact science, and mistakes will be made and adjustments will need to be made.

[underscore]

Laying for several hours in the cold with one's head in a drainage ditch is the problem here, not lack of an ambulance on stand-by.

Agreed.

[Liquidnails]

I bet snow immersion suffocation played a big part as well. It's extremely difficult to breathe when you are upside down with snow packed around your face. Treewells pose the same issue especially in locations that receive greater snowfall amounts than here in the Okanagan.

have a look at this site http://www.deepsnowsafety.org/index.php/ and keep the info there in mind next time you hit the slopes. It's a good idea to ski/ride with a buddy in close proximity at all times, and have a tail-gunner if you are in a group. It's a sport with inherent dangers that every participant should at least be aware of.

[janalta]

The bottom line is that he was laying there, upside down stuck in a drainage culvert for 3 hours before anyone found him...that's why he passed away.
It sounds like the ski patrol, first aid, Drs on the hill did everything properly and everything possible....and it certainly doesn't sound like waiting for an ambulance had any negative impact on the situation

[StraitTalk]

I bet snow immersion suffocation played a big part as well. It's extremely difficult to breathe when you are upside down with snow packed around your face. Treewells pose the same issue especially in locations that receive greater snowfall amounts than here in the Okanagan.

have a look at this site http://www.deepsnowsafety.org/index.php/ and keep the info there in mind next time you hit the slopes. It's a good idea to ski/ride with a buddy in close proximity at all times, and have a tail-gunner if you are in a group. It's a sport with inherent dangers that every participant should at least be aware of.

That would be asphyxiation, not suffocation. Avalanche victims all die as a result of CO2 poisoning (asphyxiation) and that is easily the most snow one would ever have packed around their face.