Crossroads Closing

[Queen K]

Why not locate such a facility far out of the reach of temptation. Kelowna is well known for it's drug culture already. Why not have this facility, let's say, in Greenwood? Sure have a storefront intake office here in the downtown, but as soon as the client steps inside the door and completes the necessary paperwork, they are immediately loaded into a car and driven directly to the actual recovery facility.

Greenwood? Hippie counter culture country? Between pot growin' Rock Creek and pot lovin' Grand Forks?

Sorry, but have you actually been there? Near the border? Get it?

[dogspoiler]

I'm sure the people that have chosen to live in a rural area would be happy to see 50 or more alchoholics and addicts move in next door.

[cv23]

I see you've skirted the issue of what you think a fair wage rollback would be for qualified professionals who spent thousands getting their social work degrees.
I never skirted the subject as it was you who brought up the subject of employee wage rollbacks not me.
It was brought up by one poster that starting at the top of government (ie Chisty Clark) there could/should be a wage adjustment in order and that because they (senior legislators) voted themselves raises maybe they should vote themselves a rollback. Do BCGEU workers vote themselves raises?

And what routine? You've been hammering on the "self-inflicted" soap box, not me. And does ALL of Kelowna already know that drug and alcohol abuse is self-inflicted? Sure, sure, well maybe a few didn't.
Actually routine was your word, I just followed along with your lead. I'm just having a hard time fathoming exactly why you think that the rest of us should be responsible for a persons bad decisions and give them a free ride?
So what's your best guess for wages?
I have never advocated a rollback in wages for a BCGEU member, that has all been your idea so I think it would be far more appropriate for you to make the call on how drastic your proposed wage rollback should be, don't you?

You have my two solutions to help with the current situation at Crossroads so other than the employee rollbacks you brought up and seem so focused on what are your suggestions?

[Alvis]

So what's your plan? Keep raising taxes for everyone in order to pay for poor personal choices made by a few?

You talking about junkies or politicans who abuse expense accounts (and later fire the auditor general to cover it up?)
If we reined in the expense accoutns of our provincial politicians alone we'd ahve more than enough cash to run these programs. Wouldn't need to increase any tax or user fee one penny.

[cv23]

You talking about junkies or politicans who abuse expense accounts (and later fire the auditor general to cover it up?)
If we reined in the expense accoutns of our provincial politicians alone we'd ahve more than enough cash to run these programs. Wouldn't need to increase any tax or user fee one penny.

Great suggestion! Likely too late to help crossroads though (unless this whole thing is just a media play as has been previously suggested)
How do you think we should go about implementing such policy/legislation and how are we going to see these funds are directed where most needed?

[Piecemaker]

Why not locate such a facility far out of the reach of temptation. Kelowna is well known for it's drug culture already. Why not have this facility, let's say, in Greenwood? Sure have a storefront intake office here in the downtown, but as soon as the client steps inside the door and completes the necessary paperwork, they are immediately loaded into a car and driven directly to the actual recovery facility.

Greenwood? Hippie counter culture country? Between pot growin' Rock Creek and pot lovin' Grand Forks?

Sorry, but have you actually been there? Near the border? Get it?

In addition to qhat Queen K wrote, a facility like Crossroads needs professional staff. There isn't the staff available in Greenwood and Rock Creek. Detox centres needs medical support to be reasonably near by. Part of what treatment centres do is work to connect people to supportive services in the community for after care once the treatment is completed. The isssue for Crossroads isn't that their clients are going out into the community and using. If that were the case, they could simply have clients agree that they will not leave the facility unescorted during their stay and terminate service of those who violate that agreement.

[mitchbaywatch]

stop spending so much on the war on drugs and put the money to treatment!! easy

[Fancy]

stop spending so much on the war on drugs and put the money to treatment!! easy

Really? Again, why not help with the donations?

[Queen K]

Professional staff? According to some here Crossroads should be run by high school graduates who haven't had a hard knock in life and get paid accordingly. And to bring down costs, some should pick up shovels, mowers and do dishes, heck juggle knives in the kitchen making soya sushi. I hear tell I could print a degree off the 'net and be qualified to make $12 bux an hour to work with people who may or may not be sincere, or may start talking about the sexual abuse and self-inflicted the alcohol to cope.

Mitchbaywatch, stop making sense okay? A facility like this can run on cheques flowing in from the public.

[Queen K]

[quote="cv23
Gotta wonder why these other "spa-like treatment facilities" are so much more in demand and keeping their heads above water when Crossroads is wallowing in massive debt and projecting future losses? They obviously tried to go head to head with the competition but must not have been providing services equal in conditions or success to their for profit competition.[/quote]

Cv3, this is the quote that gave me the impression you were/are union bashing. Rwede came up with HEU, which in turn signalled you're sympathetic responses to Rwedes suggestion.

Was I wrong to assume you are agreeing with bashing the HEU?

[cv23]

Was I wrong to assume you are agreeing with bashing the HEU?

Yes Queeny
When I bash a group I will refer to them by name. I make no secret of the fact that I am no fan of unions(gangs) and was very pleased to see where Michigan, a formerly very pro-union state and similar to BC, recently passed sweeping right to work legislation. This gave all workers equal opportunity to work and not have to pay some gang protection money just to have a job.

In this case it is not the HEU who sets the facilities standards. They are however partially responsible for the conditions and the facilities success rate. Neither of these items are wage related.

If pointing these facts out is union bashing in your opinion then I'd suggest that maybe you seek treatment for paranoia and ask yourself if there are real reasons why you and other pro unionists are and should be so paranoid?

[fluffy]

I think theyeti hit it on the head a few pages back in that the measure of society's compassion is in the way it treats its weakest members. Too many are willing to write off substance abuse problems as self inflicted, " It's their choices that got them there, let them deal with finding their own way back." To these people I would say you don't know what you're talking about, shut your mouth and listen for once. Neanderthal thinking like yours is a major barrier to solving this issue. Substance abuse is just about always a symptom of a deeper problem, usually mental in nature, and more often than not hinged on childhood upbringing. Alcoholic parents will raise alcoholic children, who in turn will pass the gift on to their children. Facilities like Crossroads actively work to break the circle and "fix" the problems leading to substance abuse. And yes, they take money to run. Residential treatment has a proven track record in that it takes the patient out of their day-to-day, high-risk environment long enough to hopefully instill a change in perspective that will give them the strength to resist the temptation to abuse once again upon reentry to society. But that means housing and feeding them in addition to the professional assistance necessary to provoke the "attitude adjustment" required for success. Of course that might mean that there could be a little less money to keep our politicians and bureaucrats jetting back and forth to their expense account padded digs in Victoria on their grueling journey to a six digit pension.

I see the closing of Crossrosds as a major step backwards and a sad indication of how screwed up our priorities as a society are.

[cv23]

Too many are willing to write off substance abuse problems as self inflicted, " It's their choices that got them there, let them deal with finding their own way back."

If you took the time to read what has been said you will see that the suggestion is not that they be left to find their own way back but in order to keep the facility open that during and after treatment that they give back or directly contribute in some way to the facility which helped them find their way back.
Losing Crossroads may be a huge blow to the community but those that only took from Crossroads without giving back or contributing to the facilities operation in some small way are just as much a part of the facilities failure as anyone else.

[fluffy]

Becoming a functioning contributor to society fills that bill. Paying taxes, feeding the machine. You seem to think they should be put on a payment plan of some sort. I think that there is already plenty of support from the taxpayer to fund this sort of program, it's just being mis-spent. There is a pervasive attitude among our elected officials, government employees and contractors alike that government means easy money, and if that were looked at closely we would find there is plenty of money around, it's just currently going to those who are not particularly in need of it. Society in general sees substance abuse, and mental health issues in general, as "somebody else's" problem and that's where the mindset has to shift to effectively deal with the problem.

[theyeti]

this is a good point . government waste and theft is huge we could fix most the worlds problems without there help