Okanagan Wolf Kill

[sobrohusfat]

The wolf population is exploding in the province, and that is a fact. The caribou are going extinct in Kootenay National Park because wolves are too numerous (and they cannot be hunted there).

...There have been reports of visitors feeding wildlife in the mountain parks this spring and summer, including this recent incident on Highway 93S in Kootenay National Park where a wolf was approached and fed.
http://www.pc.gc.ca/pn-np/mtn/appeal/fed.aspx

I was working on the Kootenay National Park fire crew the year the park naturalists celebrated the return of wolves in the area (led by a big black beauty with yellow eyes - 1988/89). Seems they did pretty well in the 25 years since then. If their numbers are now threatening the existence of other species, i don't see why managing their population should be seen any differently than current fire management efforts in order to maintain the health and natural balance of the area.

Thanks for the very informative posts Glacier and wcasako.

[Fancy]

Getting rid of a den after chowing down on a horse was a choice that should have been made once the owners knew the den was there. That was just begging for a tragedy to happen and it did.

[Gone_Fishin]

Can you tell us exactly what impact the Okanagan wolf hunt is going to have on the caribou population in another region?

And....since we are talking conservation...are environmental changes, population, development in the area not affecting the caribou numbers ?

We might not have an effect on caribou in another region, but we may be able to help the caribou that frequent the eastern edge of region 8 along the Monashees by keeping wolves moving rather than staying put and slaughtering the few caribou we do have.

Too bad you want to see the caribou extirpated. I guess your love of wolves trumps real conservation of all species.

[janalta]

We might not have an effect on caribou in another region, but we may be able to help the caribou that frequent the eastern edge of region 8 along the Monashees by keeping wolves moving rather than staying put and slaughtering the few caribou we do have.

Too bad you want to see the caribou extirpated. I guess your love of wolves trumps real conservation of all species.

Not what I said at all...not even remotely close.
Read it again.
To blame the decline in the caribou population one one cause and one cause alone is absurd.
All environmental impacts on their habitat need to be closely monitored and accounted for, not just the natural predators.
Habitat loss, disease, interuption in migratory routes, food sources...all huge factors in wildlife numbers and health.

[Gone_Fishin]

We might not have an effect on caribou in another region, but we may be able to help the caribou that frequent the eastern edge of region 8 along the Monashees by keeping wolves moving rather than staying put and slaughtering the few caribou we do have.

Too bad you want to see the caribou extirpated. I guess your love of wolves trumps real conservation of all species.

Not what I said at all...not even remotely close.
Read it again.
To blame the decline in the caribou population one one cause and one cause alone is absurd.
All environmental impacts on their habitat need to be closely monitored and accounted for, not just the natural predators.
Habitat loss, disease, interuption in migratory routes, food sources...all huge factors in wildlife numbers and health.

You didn't say it, but that will be the result if your wishes come true. Caribou have been studied extensively in southern BC. The over-ruling factor threatening to extirpate them right now is predation. There's nothing we can do to their habitat in time to save them from this fate - that's a 200 year plan, but the caribou will be extirpated in 10 years if we don't act right now.

Again, it's sad to see that some people want to see caribou go extinct. The lack of "big picture" thinking on conservation issues by emotional responses rather than science-based conservation initiatives does not help caribou or wolves at all.

[janalta]

What exactly are 'my wishes' ??
As far as I know, this thread is supposed to be about the wolf population here in the Okanagan, which is estimated to be between 50-150 animals.
The caribou herds you are talking about are not in the same area we are talking about.
There is no shortage of deer, moose and sheep in our area....therefore it seems that the wolves in this area are not posing a threat to their numbers in any way, shape or form.

I do not wish to see any animals, regardless of species in danger of extinction...but until you can prove to me that the wolves in THIS area are posing an immediate threat to either the balance of wildlife or to human lives....I don't see any sort of eradication , cull or increase in hunting being necessary.

[Fancy]

I'm not sure about the sheep - the herd in the southerin interior was decimated by disease a few years back and the Shorts Creek herd has split into two and doesn't have that many individuals to justify a heatlhy population from what I've read.

[janalta]

I'm not sure about the sheep - the herd in the southerin interior was decimated by disease a few years back and the Shorts Creek herd has split into two and doesn't have that many individuals to justify a heatlhy population from what I've read.

The large herd of two rams and at least 20 ewes that were walking across the road on the west side a few weeks back looked pretty healthy to me.

But you did just prove the point that there are many factors involved in any dwindling population of species...such as disease, habitat loss....and not simply overpredation. Meaning, reducing numbers of one species does not guarantee the survival of another.

[Rwede]

What exactly are 'my wishes' ??
As far as I know, this thread is supposed to be about the wolf population here in the Okanagan, which is estimated to be between 50-150 animals.
The caribou herds you are talking about are not in the same area we are talking about.
There is no shortage of deer, moose and sheep in our area....therefore it seems that the wolves in this area are not posing a threat to their numbers in any way, shape or form.

I do not wish to see any animals, regardless of species in danger of extinction...but until you can prove to me that the wolves in THIS area are posing an immediate threat to either the balance of wildlife or to human lives....I don't see any sort of eradication , cull or increase in hunting being necessary.

Your wishes are to stop the wolf hunt. That means you don't care about the extinction of caribou. That's the facts of the situation.

And, there are caribou in region 8, and they need some protection! Moreover, these wolves don't care about lines drawn on a map, and often range into region 4 where the majority of the endangered caribou live. A pack of wolves can travel a great distance in a short time.

You'll have to explain to me why wolf numbers are increasing in regions 3, 4, and 5 despite decades of wolf hunting and no bag limit in some areas. You'll have to explain why region 8 should remain the only region in the province without a wolf hunt.

Your arguments are all based on emotion and social issues, and have nothing to do with science. Science says we should have a wolf hunt here for the betterment of all species, including wolves. To hell with emotions, I say. Stick with the science behind the hunt.

[Rwede]

The large herd of two rams and at least 20 ewes that were walking across the road on the west side a few weeks back looked pretty healthy to me.

But you did just prove the point that there are many factors involved in any dwindling population of species...such as disease, habitat loss....and not simply overpredation. Meaning, reducing numbers of one species does not guarantee the survival of another.

The reason those sheep are on Westside Road is because predators have driven them from their usual range, which is up Shorts Creek. Those predators include a lot of wolves. Now, we can watch as these sheep get hit by cars and catch disease from the domestic sheep in that area. It was domestic sheep that decimated the herds in the south Okanagan in the late 1990s. That same fate is going to befall the Shorts sheep as they try to avoid wolf predation and come into contact with the domestics.

You can cry about habitat all you want, but we can do very little about habitat in the next 10 - 15 years. This wolf hunt is sustainable and will help all species, including the wolves, and it's something we can do with immediate ecosystem benefits RIGHT NOW.

And, for the umpteenth time in this thread, the wolf hunt will NOT reduce wolf numbers in this area. It will only keep them moving so that localized decimation of prey species does not occur.

[Fancy]

The large herd of two rams and at least 20 ewes that were walking across the road on the west side a few weeks back looked pretty healthy to me.

But you did just prove the point that there are many factors involved in any dwindling population of species...such as disease, habitat loss....and not simply overpredation. Meaning, reducing numbers of one species does not guarantee the survival of another.

Because a herd looks healthy to you doesn't justify predators killing them. It's taken a long time to get any kind of numbers up. Wolves can destroy the whole herd given the chance.

[KL3-Something]

The large herd of two rams and at least 20 ewes that were walking across the road on the west side a few weeks back looked pretty healthy to me.

But you did just prove the point that there are many factors involved in any dwindling population of species...such as disease, habitat loss....and not simply overpredation. Meaning, reducing numbers of one species does not guarantee the survival of another.

Because a herd looks healthy to you doesn't justify predators killing them. It's taken a long time to get any kind of numbers up. Wolves can destroy the whole herd given the chance.

Looking at the health of individual animals is not indicative of the health of the herd. You said you saw about 22 animals, with two of those being rams. There is not enough genetic diversity in those numbers for the long-term viability of that herd. What everyone who you disagree with is saying is that there is a lot more to this subject than what is on the surface. That conclusion you came to based on that momentary observation is an example of the approach the nay-sayers are taking to this subject. Their knowledge of the subject is superficial at best.

[janalta]

Do any of you have any actual facts to show how many wolves are living/hunting in the Shorts Creek area?
Are wolves the only predators/threats in this area?
How many domestic sheep ranches are located on the west side?

Strange...the experts don't list wolves as a threat to the sheep....and, it also happens to be natural for them to move to the valley bottom in winter, especially in years of heavy snowfall, like this year.

Threats
•Loss of habitat and difficulty moving between habitats due to urban development.
•Presence of domestic sheep, which can transfer fatal diseases to wild sheep.
•Encroachment of invasive plants which have low nutritional value and out-compete native grasses.
•Deterioration of grasslands by recreational activities such as off-road vehicles.
•Recreational activities in rocky habitats disturbing the sheep, especially during lambing.
•Introduced predators, such as domestic dogs, which wound and kill sheep, and chase pregnant ewes.
•Road mortality affects local population of sheep each year.

We are hardly being over run with wolves....so show us proof that the wolf population in the Okanagan are a direct threat to any species' demise.
So far all I've heard is speculation that if we do not control our wolf population they will probably move and start to hunt the caribou, even though there are plenty of prey animals living in the area they are in now

[Fancy]

I don't know why people are concerned over this particular wolf season - it's not like they've never been hunted before.

[mexi cali]

Just a quick check of the "facts" surrounding mans need to be part of the process but us "superior" species have been around about 200,000 years or so and white tailed deer about 3-4 million years. Wolves about 1.6 million years. Moose have been around for more than 500,000 years.

Let's have an actuary jump in here and tell us how many wolves should have been around by the time we sprung out of whatever quagmire we crawled out of based on the "fact" that wolves are prolific breeders.

Surely there would have been gazillions of them and given that moose didn't show up until about a million years later, how did they get a foot hold at all what with all those "hunt for sport" furry blood thirsty canines running the show.

That head start gave all of these animals and many more species plenty of time to overrun the planet before we got here.

It seems to me that nature must have done a pretty good job of controlling the populations of every species up until our arrival without having the benefit of the assistance of the "superior" species because they did not in fact (there's that word again) overrun the planet.

But now because we have encroached on their natural homes and we see the potential for unwanted interaction; interaction which they do not welcome, we see ourselves as being a necessary part of the eco balance and give ourselves permission to kill whatever species in whatever numbers we deem to be reasonable because we are afraid of them?

We give ourselves more rights than we give them. And this rock is as much theirs as it has ever been ours.

In general, the human species arrogance is responsible for ALL of the problems on our planet but while most reasonable people would acknowledge this, we aren't smart enough to say enough is enough, lets try something different.

We may as the "superior" species have control of this planet since we came upon the scene and learned how to make axes out of rock and spearheads out of obsidian and fire out of, well, fire but really, how well is it working out so far?