Okanagan Wolf Kill

[wcasako]

I'm sure the buffalo would agree with that.
http://www.environmentalgraffiti.com/news-near-extinction-american-bison

The link you provided does not refer to modern sport hunting - it involves unregulated market hunting - big difference. What you are referring to took place over a 140 years ago - not within the last century as per the quote from my post you provided.

[Gone_Fishin]

Did you know that wolves mate for life and can have up to 42 offspring living in a pack?

So if the shoe was on the other foot and the wolves wanted to hunt one of your family members as long as they are enjoying themselves everything would be fine? Do you really consider yourself more superior then an animal? Can you really tell me you wouldn't have a concern?

Just because we are told it's okay to do something sometimes it isn't the case when faced in a similar situation.

Wolves do not mate for life.

In your attempt to humanize animals, you're playing the Walt Disney card again. Stick to science and facts. Wolves are not humans. Wolves are wild animals. Pretty soon we'll get a story of wolves speaking english and using knives and forks if we go the Disney route.

Wcasako is right about hunters, aka conservationists, knowing about the details of this season for a long time. I was involved in research and data gathering for this wolf hunt since 2007. Many people spent countless hours documenting populations and locations of wolves for proper data on which to base scientific decisions on the sustainability of this hunt. There was no willy-nilly declaration of a season. It took a lot of work and dedicated research to get the season, which was not approved by the wildlife branch in Victoria until we had a complete set of data and proper modeling to give it the go-ahead. There was no way that approval would be obtained until it was proven beyond a doubt that it would be sustainable to the senior bios.

The difference between hunters (conservationists) and anti-hunters (preservationists) is that hunters recognize their role in nature and understand their impact, and conduct themselves accordingly. Preservationists tend to think they have no impact, yet the facts and science point to the complete opposite. Too often, failure to manage populations with hunting and trapping leads to mass starvation and sometimes extirpation of dependent species. Hunters play a vital role in determining the continuation of viable, healthy wildlife populations.

[zzontar]

The myth of their killing only the weak and sick has long been debunked. Wolves, like all predators, are opportunists. They'll kill whatever presents itself, including mature, prime breeding animals that are neither weak nor sick. The myth makes for good story books, but it's not the rule in the real world. Hunters, too, take whichever (if any!) legal animal presents itself, as only 3% hold out for the biggest rack or horns. Hunters, just like wolves, want meat for dinner, not antlers for the wall.

I guess it depends where you get your info from.

http://www.wolfcountry.net/information/WolfHunting.html

It has long been recognized that wolves often take advantage of weak members of the herd. In 1804, Captain Clark of the famed Lewis and Clark expedition wrote that prairie wolves followed buffalo and fed "on those that are killed by accident or those that are too pore or fat to keep up with the ganges."
Later researchers reinforced the image of the wolf as a predator of the very young, the very old, the weak, of the diseased. Aldolph Murie, in the Wolves of Mount McKinley,wrote: "Many bands seem to be chased, given a trial, and if no advantage is gained or weak animals discovered, the wolves travel on to chase other bands until an advantage can be seized."
Lois Crisler notes in Arctic wild, "In all our time in the arctic, the only healthy caribou we saw or found killed were fawns with big herds." She observed that adult caribou killed had "hoof disease, or lung tapeworm, or nostril-cloging ... botflies." In a 1980 study in northeast Alberta, T. Fuller and L.B. Kieth found that "wolves killed disproportionately more young, old and probably debilitated moose (Ales alces), as well as more female calves."
In fact, the only animal that habitually preys upon prime mature animals is man.
Although it does not prey only on the weak and the ill, the wolf is opportunistic, and it is inevitably the disadvantaged that are the easiest to catch.

[Fancy]

Well, a whole herd of sheep were killed by wolves a couple of years ago and not eaten. Needless to say, the wolves were culled.

[Gone_Fishin]

Real-life, right here in BC, and not during the time of Lewis and Clark.

This is from Dr Valerius Geist, the best wildlife biologist in North America.

I retired to an agricultural area on Vancouver Island in 1995. During walks near our home I explored at all seasons a meadow system associated with dairy, beef and sheep farming. These meadows and adjacent forests contained, year-round, about 120 black-tailed deer and half a dozen large male black bears. In winter came some 60-80 trumpeter swans, as well as large flocks of Canada geese, widgeons, mallards and green-winged teals. Pheasants and ruffed grouse were not uncommon. In the fall of 1995 I saw one track of a lone wolf. I cannot recall seeing any wolf tracks in the four years following. Then in January 1999 my oldest son Karl and I tracked a pair of wolves in the snow, suggesting a breeding pair and thus pack-formation. A pack did indeed arrive that summer. Within three months not a deer was to be seen, or tracked, in these meadows—even during the rut. Using powerful lights we saw deer at night huddling against barns and houses where deer had not been seen previously. For the first time deer moved into our garden and around our house, and the damage to our fruit trees and roses skyrocketed. The trumpeter swans left not to return for four years, until the last of the pack was killed. The geese and ducks avoided the outer meadows and lived only close to the barns. Pheasants and ruffed grouse vanished. The landscape looked empty, as if vacuumed of wildlife.



Wolves attacked and killed or injured dogs, at times right beside their shouting, gesticulating owners. Wolves began following our neighbors when they rode out on horseback. A duck hunter shot one wolf and fatally wounded another as three attacked his dog. They ventured into gardens and under verandas trying to get at dogs, and ran after quads, tractors and motorcycles to attack the accompanying farm dogs. My neighbor warded off three such attacks on his dogs with his boots, and his hired man ran back to a tractor in panic after the wolves chased two dogs under it. One wolf approached within about 15 paces of my wife and a group of eleven visitors that were taking an evening stroll about half a mile from our house. The wolf howled and barked at the people. Our neighbor then went out armed with his dogs, and the wolf, a small female, promptly attacked the dogs and was shot at 50 feet. Nine days later my neighbor killed a second wolf that was following and barking at him. This wolf may have been defending a sheep it had dragged half a mile. These weighed between 60 and 70 lbs, small for wolves, a sign of poor nutrition.



A neighbor raising sheep lost many to wolves, so he acquired five large, sheep-guarding dogs. These dogs and the wolf pack had frequent, night-long barking and howling duels at the forest edge. I observed subsequently, on the evening of October 19th 2002, how the last of the pack, a male, fraternize successfully with the sheep dogs. He kept it up and was eventually shot March 12th 2003 while sitting among these dogs. However, before that he visited us when our female German longhair pointer, Susu, was in heat, and barked at my wife in our doorway. That is, he acted like other male dogs that were attracted to Susu in heat, only bolder.



Wolves had been seen in the neighborhood sitting and observing people; we know from captivity studies that wolves are observation learners. One male approached my wife, my brother-in-law and myself across a quarter-mile of open meadow and stood looking us over for a very long minute about 10 paces away before moving on into the forest. Along with my neighbors, I repeatedly saw wolves showing interest in humans.



However, the worst incident happened about 350 yards from our house when the second misbehaving pack formed. On March 27th, 2007, our neighbors went in the morning to inspect their dairy cattle and pastures. Their old dog ran ahead of them. Just as they entered the forest five wolves attacked the dog. My neighbor grabbed a cedar branch and advanced on the wolves, which turned towards him snarling. His wife jumped into the caboose of their excavator that happened to be nearby. My neighbor's energetic counter attack freed the dog, and intimidated all but one wolf that advanced on him snarling. However, he too withdrew, even if reluctantly. While my neighbor ran home to get a gun, his wife ran to us, shouting for me to get a rifle. We did not see the wolves, though they were sighted briefly in the evening, and a neighbor walking his dog had an encounter with two wolves about a mile away. He was able to chase them away. The following morning our neighbors took a rifle along during their inspection trip of their property. The wolf pack promptly went for them again and my neighbor shot the most aggressive one, a male weighing 74 lbs. I saw the neighbors’ cattle, spooked by a wolf, crash through fences while fleeing for the security of their barn. I found two of the three cattle killed and eaten by wolves; the third was severely injured about the genitals, udder and haunches and had to be put down. I saw the docked tails, slit ears and wounded hocks on the dairy cows. Our neighbor's hired man saw from a barn a wolf attacking a heifer with a newborn calf. He raced out and put the calf on his quad. As he ran to the barn the wolf ran alongside, lunging at the calf – and right into the barn! A predator control officer was called and 13 wolves were removed within a mile of our house from the first, and four from the second misbehaving pack.

Do people understand why we have so many "urban deer" problems in Okanagan towns now?

[Fancy]

http://www.wolfcountry.net/information/WolfHunting.html

I wouldn't trust this site as it seems to be copied from other blogs. Where's the real research and credentials?

[janalta]

Do people understand why we have so many "urban deer" problems in Okanagan towns now?

Because of 'Urban sprawl'. The deer have always been here...we're just taking over more and more of their habitat.
It has nadda to do with wolves.

[Glacier]

I can't believe how many bleeding heart hippies live in Kelowna. The wolf population is exploding in the province, and that is a fact. The caribou are going extinct in Kootenay National Park because wolves are too numerous (and they cannot be hunted there). There is open season on wolves in the Cariboo right now because the deer population is being decimated in addition to the loss of domestic animals. Open season means you can kill as many wolves as you want whenever you want.

Being shot is far more merciful than starving to death.

P.S. My parents are hippies, but even they support the wolf hunt because they have spent enough time in nature to understand how conservation works.

[Gone_Fishin]

Ultimately, the caribou are a good example of what we must do. I want to have caribou and wolves here in 20 years, not just wolves. The wolves are extirpating the caribou right now, and if left unchecked, the caribou will be extinct in the next 5 to 10 years. I don't want to see that happen. Those who are against wolf hunting and don't understand what is happening with the caribou in southern BC right now really need to inform themselves before they get all emotional about wolves. Does this make them anti-caribou? Are wolves more iconic than caribou, are wolves "Hollywood sexy" and caribou not? Do wolves have a higher value than caribou? Not in my books. I want to have both species here.

[nextimeround]

I can't believe how many bleeding heart hippies live in Kelowna. The wolf population is exploding in the province, and that is a fact. The caribou are going extinct in Kootenay National Park because wolves are too numerous (and they cannot be hunted there). There is open season on wolves in the Cariboo right now because the deer population is being decimated in addition to the loss of domestic animals. Open season means you can kill as many wolves as you want whenever you want.

Being shot is far more merciful than starving to death.

P.S. My parents are hippies, but even they support the wolf hunt because they have spent enough time in nature to understand how conservation works.

Understand how conservation works? How did conservation work for tens of thousands of years before the rifle was invented then tell me that? A different time you say? Absolutely. It was a time when man was part of nature not thinking himself above or master over it. The balance of nature has been tilted and skewed by your type of mentality so badly that we may never get back to a true balance. However the sooner we stop playing god and get back in touch with truth the better chance we have.

If you hunt for food, that's great - man is after all a predator so that is part of Nature's balance. If you follow the ways of the original people in this land then you'll never take more than you need and you will always give back. If this is you then I thank you for you truly are stewards of our land.

If you hunt for the thrill of killing and like to display your trophies of the animals which you happened to sneak up on, then I believe you to be at the heart of our problems in general. If it wasn't for you we wouldn't have to have conservation officers or hunting seasons because things would naturally balance as they did for a very long time before your so called experts wrote their papers.

[nextimeround]

Ultimately, the caribou are a good example of what we must do. I want to have caribou and wolves here in 20 years, not just wolves. The wolves are extirpating the caribou right now, and if left unchecked, the caribou will be extinct in the next 5 to 10 years. I don't want to see that happen. Those who are against wolf hunting and don't understand what is happening with the caribou in southern BC right now really need to inform themselves before they get all emotional about wolves. Does this make them anti-caribou? Are wolves more iconic than caribou, are wolves "Hollywood sexy" and caribou not? Do wolves have a higher value than caribou? Not in my books. I want to have both species here.

You are obviously very knowledgable and care deeply. Thanks for your good perspective and factual posts. I'm curious what the reality is (for real). Some in support of the wolf hunt have stated there will be very few wolves taken. And that there will be little difference made. You are stating that unless we reduce the wolf population that will spell catastrophe for caribou. I assume we'll need to reduce the wolf population by more than a few to make a difference. So my question is who's right? What will it take and how do we get balance without man having to cull or seed?

[Gone_Fishin]

Understand how conservation works? How did conservation work for tens of thousands of years before the rifle was invented then tell me that? A different time you say? Absolutely. It was a time when man was part of nature not thinking himself above or master over it. The balance of nature has been tilted and skewed by your type of mentality so badly that we may never get back to a true balance. However the sooner we stop playing god and get back in touch with truth the better chance we have.

If you hunt for food, that's great - man is after all a predator so that is part of Nature's balance. If you follow the ways of the original people in this land then you'll never take more than you need and you will always give back. If this is you then I thank you for you truly are stewards of our land.

If you hunt for the thrill of killing and like to display your trophies of the animals which you happened to sneak up on, then I believe you to be at the heart of our problems in general. If it wasn't for you we wouldn't have to have conservation officers or hunting seasons because things would naturally balance as they did for a very long time before your so called experts wrote their papers.

Your utopian world does not exist.

Without hunting, we'd need armies of Conservation Officers to do animal control, as we'd literally be over run with all species. Man is a part of the natural balance, and hunting animals as we have evolved to do, is an important part of conservation. If you think having COs shooting wolves and bears in your kids' schoolyard is preferable to having hunters, then you better step back and reassess what you're trying to accomplish. Remembering that wolves killed upwards of 3,000 people per year in Europe in the Middle Ages might be worth thinking about before you demand we go down the route you're advocating.

[nextimeround]

Your utopian world does not exist.

Without hunting, we'd need armies on Conservation Officers to do animal control, as we'd literally be over run with all species. Man is a part of the natural balance, and hunting animals as we have evolved to do, is an important part of conservation. If you think having COs shooting wolves and bears in your kids' schoolyard is preferable to having hunters, then you better step back and reassess what you're trying to accomplish. Remembering that wolves killed upwards of 3,000 people per year in Europe in the Middle Ages might be worth thinking about before you demand we go down the route you're advocating.

Sorry sir I disagree with your view that we would be overrun if not for hunters. I'd say tht over hunting in fact has led many species to the brink of extinction, so quite the opposite of what you're suggesting. I'd do understand the challenges of wildlife in urban interface areas. This is really a issue of man expanding into these areas but the problem does never the less exist. I these cases we do unfortunately need to take drastic measures to protect the humans. A necessary evil without question.

I've heard and debated the "your utopian world doesn't exist" argument for a long time in regards to other environmental issues. For 30 years I've heard this and finaly now are people starting to admit they were wrong. We do need conservation to regulate hunters and prevent over hunting. There's even something to be said about stewardship and wildlife management to some degree in urban interface areas. However to suggest that nature can no longer manage itself seems a bit arrogant. If that's truly the case then we're doomed because man's track record in this regard is abysmal.

[zzontar]

I'm curious what the reality is (for real). Some in support of the wolf hunt have stated there will be very few wolves taken. And that there will be little difference made. You are stating that unless we reduce the wolf population that will spell catastrophe for caribou. I assume we'll need to reduce the wolf population by more than a few to make a difference. So my question is who's right?

I've been wondering about that contradiction myself.

[Gone_Fishin]

Sorry sir I disagree with your view that we would be overrun if not for hunters. I'd say tht over hunting in fact has led many species to the brink of extinction, so quite the opposite of what you're suggesting. I'd do understand the challenges of wildlife in urban interface areas. This is really a issue of man expanding into these areas but the problem does never the less exist. I these cases we do unfortunately need to take drastic measures to protect the humans. A necessary evil without question.

I've heard and debated the "your utopian world doesn't exist" argument for a long time in regards to other environmental issues. For 30 years I've heard this and finaly now are people starting to admit they were wrong. We do need conservation to regulate hunters and prevent over hunting. There's even something to be said about stewardship and wildlife management to some degree in urban interface areas. However to suggest that nature can no longer manage itself seems a bit arrogant. If that's truly the case then we're doomed because man's track record in this regard is abysmal.

Name one species in BC that has been hunted to extinction in the past 100 years. One.

When predators have the option of domesticated animals and livestock to sate their appetites, your idea of "natural balance" just doesn't exist. There is no limit to food supply for predators now that our cattle roam the hills, and that's why the "leave them alone and they'll work it out" approach will not work. Once the ungulates are wiped out, the cattle will be targeted. And we'll keep feeding cattle into the mix in unlimited numbers, so predator populations explode if left unchecked.

Again, man is part of the natural balance, and there's no arrogance in recognizing that fact. Why are your eyes in the front of your head instead of on the sides, like a deer's?