Two bodies recovered from SUV

[acidrain]

How do people get involved with drugs anyway? Is it much the same way as one would get involved with drugs (alcohol is a drug) when one has a drink? Look at the disconnect you've shown in that sentence.

I think what often happens when these situations make the news is a lot of people want to disconnect themselves from thinking it could happen to them. It's "those" people making bad choices that have done it to themselves. It's those "bad parents" who took their kids down the wrong path. As soon as you acknowledge your kids might make the same choices it's amazing the level of discomfort felt. It's easy to label the situation as black and white because it fits into a convenient theory of why people do the things they do.

I don't know these two individuals but don't assume they didn't have normal lives at one point in time. Don't assume you know about how they grew up or how they went down the wrong path. Many of these people start out the same just like you and I. Then wind up falling deeper and deeper down a hole they can't get out of. I can't tell you how many times I hear the "not my child" routine only to see the same child turn out to be a deliquent.

[Gixxer]

Too all the amazing super parents that claim to have raised perfect children, you're all sick in the head. How rude to take a tragic loss of a mother and make it about YOU, and how you think you're perfect parents. Its Sick

[kibbs]

I think what often happens when these situations make the news is a lot of people want to disconnect themselves from thinking it could happen to them.

I agree ,everyone thinks they are doing the best job .Unless you are really in your kids head you don't know whats going on .Don't assume.
Media glamorizes the crap out of this lifestyle.The jersey shore crowd make my skin crawl.
I like woman real ,little make up .real boobs ,real down to earth personality.
Fake posers need not apply.
PLEASE!Let the dead Rest In Peace

[Queen K]

Truthfully, I think this has just run it's course. But that's just me.

Gangster activity in this town is sickening.

Disappeared people.
Shot outs (Budget rentals, The Grand)
Targetted fires.
Targetted hits.
Beaten up people. I'm sure they don't even make the news anymore.

Time to legalize the gold mine.

[Graham Adder]

Tom Jones...

It always fills in voids and keeps things interesting when you make an appearance.
I hope you stick around for awhile and keep tuning some of these "supporters" in as they don't seem to be able to get it any other way.
I am sure you have a much deeper understanding of the inner workings of these criminal organizations and their pawns than any of us here, as we obviously don't follow their actions with such passion as you do.
I appreciate the information you've gathered and posted on your blog and I often go there to peruse just for my own entertainment...as well as keeping up on what the media doesn't report.

I still say that one makes choices throughout life...and one of those choices is to be a part of the solution or a part of the problem. Being informed and using that information to determine your stand for or against is what having such information at one's fingertips is all about.
I for one appreciate your efforts and am happy to see you posting.

Keep up the good fight "Tom".

[janalta]

Too all the amazing super parents that claim to have raised perfect children, you're all sick in the head. How rude to take a tragic loss of a mother and make it about YOU, and how you think you're perfect parents. Its Sick

Yes, good parents are sick in the head for sure

We were discussing how and why people are drawn into the lifestyle that lead to this woman's death....all parents should discuss it.

[sislonski]

What a naive statement.

What is naive about it? I know my daughter and I know that she'll never make that choice. Naive would be to think that she'll never do anything wrong. But I didn't say that. My statement is that I know she is self confident enough in herself that I know she'll never find a need to make those kind of poor choices. Period.

[sislonski]

now were talking.just love your kids people
the easiest job in the world

No it's not the easiest job in the world. It's the hardest job, loving them IS NOT ENOUGH, that's the problem. Too many people think that's all it takes it it's not. You have to guide, lead by example, teach responsibility, etc Again it's the hardest job in the world.

[sislonski]

I couldn't help but laugh out loud at the statements claiming my sons and daughters would NEVER get caught up in the underworld. My friend who dated the drug lord now has a Phd. She's won numerous academic awards. Her parents to this day still don't know she dated that guy. Another friend of mine was your stereotypical Asian college girl. She became a high paid escort. Her parents never found out about that. Do you really think they would tell them?

I think part of why my friends got involved in these situations is the fact their parents were so naive. Their parents would have never seen it coming. They got straight A's, they were not plastic barbies, they were integrated into the community, etc.

I doubt my friends parents would believe it even if they did tell them at this point. Both my friends went on to have successful careers, got married and had children. Don't assume you know everything about your kids. ANYBODY is capable of making bad choices. Even the people you least expect to.

I'm glad you found it amusing. You must be easily amused. How do you know for a fact their parents would never have expected it of them. Maybe they did? PHD and straight A's have nothing to do with whether a person gets mixed up in the underworld or not, it has nothing to do with the choices they make. It's the person inside. A person doesn't make choices because of a parents naivity. That's the dummest most immature statement I've read yet. They made their choices on their own and are solely responsible for them.

[sislonski]

what about the marginalized who weren't? Would the posters here feel differently, and this illustrative only, no insinuation, about this woman if they knew that she was abused by her father, constantly put down and undermined? Why do abused women stay with their abusers anyway? defend them, still love them?
I don't know specifically. Do you? Do the other posters? What I'm certainly not going to say is that they deserved it.
I have more class than to come on a public forum and disparage someones looks. I purposely stayed out of this thread because of the ugly trend it was taking and then I read 3 or 4 pages of people acting like a bunch of bullying 12 years old and I was disgusted. Morals indeed.

I wasn't, it was a quantifying statement about how powerful nuerological disorders can be. Here's another, 349 US service men killed themselves last year as a result of PTSD and a great many more suffer from it's effects.

How do people get involved with drugs anyway? Is it much the same way as one would get involved with drugs (alcohol is a drug) when one has a drink? Look at the disconnect you've shown in that sentence.

I've never made a statement about this women in particular or the guy in particular. I know neither of them or their background. It really doesn't matter to me. In the end they've made the choice of a lifestyle that I completely connot support or defend. Did either of them deserve what happened to them? Of course not! and saying that would be cruel. But I feel no pity for them, I feel pity for the people that they have harmed by their choices and the family they have hurt and embarassed. I rate their lifestyle right up there with child molesters/pedophiles, rapists and murderers.

My post was in response to someone who said "what if it were your daughter". I know of many young women, who didn't have a good childhood/life. Sexually abused, raped, verbally abused, controlled. Yet they never chose the life of crime. What didn't kill them made them stronger. That is a choice each person makes in life and their choice alone. When life throws you adversity it's what you do with that which makes you stronger or weaker. It's a choice. Pure and simple.

There is no disconnect, I feel for those who are addicted to drugs. It's a choice they made at some point and who knows why they made those choices, but they did and that's why I hate the dealers because they're taking advatage of those who have neurological problems, like depression, PTSD, those who have gone through abuse as a child whatever it may be. They are taking advantage of those who are not mentally able to make the right choice. That's my point. Dealers are scum! They do know better. They're choosing to make money off the less fortunate.

[crookedmember]

All parents think they are the best parents ever. They have the coffee mugs to prove it. And their kids are special, too. They never think their kids are going to get pregnant in their teens. They never think their kids are going to get caught up in the drug world. They never think their kids are going to shoot up a movie theatre or classroom.

Those are things other peoples' kids do. Tiffany's parents probably felt the same way.

Nobody really knows what's going on in another person's head, though.

[sislonski]

[quote="acidrain
I think what often happens when these situations make the news is a lot of people want to disconnect themselves from thinking it could happen to them. It's "those" people making bad choices that have done it to themselves. It's those "bad parents" who took their kids down the wrong path. As soon as you acknowledge your kids might make the same choices it's amazing the level of discomfort felt. It's easy to label the situation as black and white because it fits into a convenient theory of why people do the things they do.

I don't know these two individuals but don't assume they didn't have normal lives at one point in time. Don't assume you know about how they grew up or how they went down the wrong path. Many of these people start out the same just like you and I. Then wind up falling deeper and deeper down a hole they can't get out of. I can't tell you how many times I hear the "not my child" routine only to see the same child turn out to be a deliquent.[/quote]

Actually that's not what I was saying at all. No one is a perfect parent and I can attest to that as a parent that I was not perfect either and certainly my children could have gone down the wrong path. There is no 100% guarantee. But I think despite my mistakes I was lucky enough that my children didn't go down that path.

But yes, it is those people making the choices that have done it to themselves. Only you and you alone make those choices. Why do people make the choices they make. I have no idea, that's different for every individual. But in the end it's their choice. I didn't assume anything about their lives or why they went down the wrong path. I've heard the "not my child" thousands of times too, but only rarely have I known any of them to take the wrong path. They may have made poor choices here and there. We all have, no one is perfect. Bottom line though, which is what I think a lot of people are saying is "you made the choice, you pay the price". It's sad, it's horrible , it's not fair. But you're also forgetting or not paying attention to the people that have been harmed by the choices these people made. Despite the botox, silicone or muscles or tatoos. (that's all superficial and a superficial argument) they chose a risky lifestyle that harms others. For that reason I have no pity.

[Triple 6]

When people post an opinion they are entitled to it. However a certain # of you felt the need to attack this person. You know who you are and your behaviour will not be tolerated. Do it again and you'll enjoy a 7 day vacay from the board.

[Treblehook]

This thread has sure run the gambit of "related" topics. Interesting discussion as to what contributes to younger people making choices such as these victims. There has been much musing about parenting; good and bad, and how that contributes to offspring making good or bad choices. To that I would say that being a good, loving parent who sets a good example and teaches honesty and solid values, greatly enhances the probability that your kids are going to grow up to be solid citizens, and to make good choices in their lives. However, good parenting "enhances" but does not guarantee such an outcome. There is example, after example in our society where one out of multiple siblings [all of whom were raised the same] turns out to be the black sheep. The reverse of what I am saying also occurs; ie: terrible parenting, where poor values and examples set will likely result in offspring who make bad choices and who are less than stellar citizens. Interestingly enough, there are also exceptions [to the anticipated outcome] in this group, where the kid who never had a chance rises above it all. My point is, the quality of parenting isn't always the be all end all in terms of the choices and behavior of the children as they grow up. The best that can be said is the odds are better for success if the parenting is good. I think it quite unfair, in the absence of evidence to the contrary, to condemn the parenting of either of these victims. The kinder and gentler thing to do would be to leave parenting out of it.

[sislonski]

I think it quite unfair, in the absence of evidence to the contrary, to condemn the parenting of either of these victims.

I don't see where anyone condemned the parenting of these two at all. Especially since we know nothing about them or their parenting. In fact I think the point is made that parenting has nothing to do with the choices that anyone makes in life. The choices each of us make are our sole responsibility.

What is being condemned in this thread is the lifestyle of drug trafficing and the harm it brings to others.

Parenting was brought into the topic when someone said "What if it were your daughter" . I can understand their reason for concern because the victim is a daughter as well as a mother so how can those who were making comments on her looks or choices be so cruel. It is concerning and heartbreaking because she was a person with feelings and a family.

In all fairness it isn't nice. All too often in society lately with the way technology is a part of our life, with social forums etc, people tend to forget there is a real person behind the posts and in the case of television/news, a real person behind the names. So it is cruel for others to ridicule when we don't know those people.

But what people have commented on in this case is the lifestyle and the look that goes along with it. Unfair? Perhaps. However when someone choses a lifestyle that brings harm to others, others tend to easily condemn, judge and redicule? Why? I think it's because so much focus is given on "Poor her or poor him" especially when they are parents of young kids. But none of the focus is given on the stories or devistation of those who are harmed by the type of criminal activity and the type of lifestyle that was reported about the male victimin this case. And in the case of the female victim there is an automatic guilty by association syndrome that takes place. It's not fair but people are naturally judgemental when it has to do with criminal activity and the lifestyle that goes with it.

That's life.