Two bodies recovered from SUV

[Treblehook]

[quote="acidrain
I think what often happens when these situations make the news is a lot of people want to disconnect themselves from thinking it could happen to them. It's "those" people making bad choices that have done it to themselves. It's those "bad parents" who took their kids down the wrong path. As soon as you acknowledge your kids might make the same choices it's amazing the level of discomfort felt. It's easy to label the situation as black and white because it fits into a convenient theory of why people do the things they do.

I don't know these two individuals but don't assume they didn't have normal lives at one point in time. Don't assume you know about how they grew up or how they went down the wrong path. Many of these people start out the same just like you and I. Then wind up falling deeper and deeper down a hole they can't get out of. I can't tell you how many times I hear the "not my child" routine only to see the same child turn out to be a deliquent.[/quote]

It was this post and others that referenced "parenting"... like the "my child wouldn't do that" and so on that prompted my remarks. IMHO, those who posted that the bad choices made by the victims in this case would never be made by their children, "because they had been good parents", suggested something less than good parenting in some way contributed to the actions of the victims. My point... Not Necessarily So!!

[Andy S]

The theme of thread has shifted momentarily to Parental opinions. If a "raise hands if you now feel your own parents let you down" type Vote was held it would be interesting. Otherwise let down or not, some children either end up with a Mom, or not - been there ..

[acidrain]

I'm glad you found it amusing. You must be easily amused. How do you know for a fact their parents would never have expected it of them. Maybe they did? PHD and straight A's have nothing to do with whether a person gets mixed up in the underworld or not, it has nothing to do with the choices they make. It's the person inside. A person doesn't make choices because of a parents naivity. That's the dummest most immature statement I've read yet. They made their choices on their own and are solely responsible for them.

There are plenty of examples of well intended girls that get together with bad men. This does not make the person inside any less. In fact many of these girls try to see the best in these people. Something that most other people can not. My friend was taught to help people in need so when she came across this young man who claimed he wanted to turn his life around she believed him. She really thought she would be able to help him. If she was guilty of anything it was that she trusted him.

When you talk about peoples choices yes they are their own. But they are not as black and white as you make them sound. Does this mean that women who go back to an abusive partner are solely responsible for their outcome? There could be many reasons this young woman wound up with this man. Many people have drawn all sorts of conclusions as to why she wanted to be with this guy (lifestyle, money, image. status, drugs).

My friend was raised with parents who told anyone that would listen how perfect she was. She was the child all the other parents in our neighbourhood wished they'd had and my parents said so themselves. She volunteers in the community, she has always gotten good grades, she has many friends, etc. A big part of why I think she got involved with such a scummy guy is that she never experienced much in life.

It does not help that regular working life is not glamorized by pop culture. A tv show with regular working class people who make a modest wage, raise kids, do not cause trouble and have no significant problems would be boring. Instead tv shows like Breaking Bad, Prison Break, The Sopranos are what people watch. It's obviously not the only contributing factor but there could be all sorts of reasons why people go down the wrong path.

[joewillie63]

Interesting article in the Province this morning (paradise lost) about the gang violence in the central okanagan. I say its time for the people here to demand our elected representatives and police make it illegal to even belong to a criminal gang. I know it would probably have to be a provincial law, but it time something is done.

[cutter7]

Interesting article in the Province this morning (paradise lost) about the gang violence in the central okanagan. I say its time for the people here to demand our elected representatives and police make it illegal to even belong to a criminal gang. I know it would probably have to be a provincial law, but it time something is done.

Joe I believe the problem is they cannot prove that the actions of its members are the clubs mandate. If they could prove that these gangs are indeed criminal organizations the law would be able to do something about it.

If you can't prove the clubs are a criminal organization where do you draw the line? even the boy scouts have criminals as leaders

[sislonski]

There are plenty of examples of well intended girls that get together with bad men. This does not make the person inside any less. In fact many of these girls try to see the best in these people. Something that most other people can not. My friend was taught to help people in need so when she came across this young man who claimed he wanted to turn his life around she believed him. She really thought she would be able to help him. If she was guilty of anything it was that she trusted him.

When you talk about peoples choices yes they are their own. But they are not as black and white as you make them sound. Does this mean that women who go back to an abusive partner are solely responsible for their outcome? There could be many reasons this young woman wound up with this man. Many people have drawn all sorts of conclusions as to why she wanted to be with this guy (lifestyle, money, image. status, drugs).

My friend was raised with parents who told anyone that would listen how perfect she was. She was the child all the other parents in our neighbourhood wished they'd had and my parents said so themselves. She volunteers in the community, she has always gotten good grades, she has many friends, etc. A big part of why I think she got involved with such a scummy guy is that she never experienced much in life.

It does not help that regular working life is not glamorized by pop culture. A tv show with regular working class people who make a modest wage, raise kids, do not cause trouble and have no significant problems would be boring. Instead tv shows like Breaking Bad, Prison Break, The Sopranos are what people watch. It's obviously not the only contributing factor but there could be all sorts of reasons why people go down the wrong path.

Everyone has some good in them, even the baddest of bad. And no it doesn't make the person that tries to see the good in someone else any less. We've all been there done that ( tried to see the good). That's a choice each of us makes because we all have compassion. Some of us are too kind and do it (try and see the good) over and over, because people in general always have hope for others, or sometimes we do it because we are gullible or sometimes it's because of a controlling personality, always wanting to make things right. I have all of these types of people in my life. I think we all do.

But what differs from those who try to help, or want to see the good, from those who end up getting fully involved in crime is the choice. Deciding when you've done what you can, that things are not going to change, basically when enough is enough or deciding right from wrong.

Yes there are many influences or reasons into why a person makes any choice, but we are Allinfluenced in a variety of ways or levels, we All have reasons that influence our choices. In the end it's still that persons choice and there's alone. It is still black and white. Is this wrong or right? A good choice or a bad choice? We all know right from wrong, good from bad.
We all have a choice and we all know it or we can choose to ignore it.

[Hot topic]

Also there are all kinds of criminals, not just those in gangs.

[hobbyguy]

Pardon?

Not everyone has some good in them. Clifford Olsen comes to mind...

Psycopathic behaviour like peddling substances that are extremely dangerous and extremely addicting are strong indicators of someone who only cares about their personal gratification, even at the expense of very dire consequences to others. Hard to find anything good in that...

[sislonski]

Pardon?

Not everyone has some good in them. Clifford Olsen comes to mind...

Psycopathic behaviour like peddling substances that are extremely dangerous and extremely addicting are strong indicators of someone who only cares about their personal gratification, even at the expense of very dire consequences to others. Hard to find anything good in that...

I totally agree! I should rephrase that to say, everyone " thinks" they can see good in almost everyone. Because "most of us" are compassionate human beings and try to see the good in others.

Totally agree with everything you said.

[Queen K]

Clifford also gave out candy at the hospital, he was known as the "candy man" for a while.

[Crazy Horse]

What is naive about it? I know my daughter and I know that she'll never make that choice. Naive would be to think that she'll never do anything wrong. But I didn't say that. My statement is that I know she is self confident enough in herself that I know she'll never find a need to make those kind of poor choices. Period.

If you were to see the things I have you wouldn't make that statement. You are probably right, that your daughter will never go out with a drug user or dealer, or put herself at risk in any way. But you cannot make that statement with absolute certainty. I hate to break this to you but you are not that special. Nobody is.

[Crazy Horse]

I agree...it's not naive at all.
I have three daughters and I can say with 100% certainty that I never have to worry about them becoming drug addicted plastic barbies.
It takes a certain amount of insecurity and low self esteem to live that lifestyle, to turn to drugs, change your appearance and surround yourself with scum.
That lifestyle just wouldn't appeal to any of my girls at all. They're too busy being nurses, going to university, playing hockey and being secure in themselves.

Too busy being nurses? I know of 2 registered nurses that had drug problems; one cocaine, the other ecstasy.
University? That doesn't lessen odds at all.
Hockey players? Don't get me started on that one. Oxy to heroin and everything in between
And while I do agree low self esteem is a factor, I have also met some of the surest, most confident people that have made bad choices.

Do not fool yourself into this "100%" certainty B.S.
99% in the very best scenario.

[Treblehook]

Clifford also gave out candy at the hospital, he was known as the "candy man" for a while.

I have seen a lot of sick responses in various threads over the years, but this one tops them all. Unbelievable.

[Tom Jones]

Keep up the good fight "Tom".

Thanks. I don’t have much inside information. Just tips people send in. Locals tend to know what’s going on in their neighborhood better than anyone else. Not to stir the pot but I do think any kid from any home can get swept away in the drug trade. The money to be made is just too tempting but as we can see the risks and ramifications aren’t worth it. Even if there was no risk, profiting from the extreme violence these drug dealers inflict to collect drug debts make the material possessions bought with blood money a shallow world indeed. Then there’s the betrayal by those consumed with greed. That pattern is becoming very clear.

[sislonski]

If you were to see the things I have you wouldn't make that statement. You are probably right, that your daughter will never go out with a drug user or dealer, or put herself at risk in any way. But you cannot make that statement with absolute certainty. I hate to break this to you but you are not that special. Nobody is.

And who are you to assume that I haven't seen the things you have, simply because I've made that statement about my children? I have seen a lot of things. Can I make that statement about my children with absolute certainty? Of course not, I'm not an idiot, no one can, but I'd be willing to bet on it.

As for being special, you don't have to break anything to me, I never stated that I was "special". But I have to disagree with your comment that no one is special, we are all special in our own way (well maybe not 100% of us, but most of us). Maybe even you!