Military policing our streets

[Atomoa]

Yeah Captain, no thanks.

I'd like to actually debate with you but if you fail to acknowledge a SWAT team as anything but "a bunch of dudes" there is no point.

Have a great day.

[Poindexter]

*removed*

[ferri]

back on topic please!

[Donald G]

To Atoma ...

The conclusive finding at the base of your comment that the police arrested a "non violent" man in the presence of his family is interesting. Do you mind laying out the basis for your "conclusive" finding?

Especially your ability to arrive at the guaranteed never violent part.

[Ken7]

Self professed pot meet kettle

Edit to add: lol bman! Hadn't even seen your post when I made mine

I'll just say you can't fix stupid!! You may figure it out...

[Ken7]

I posted a pretty obvious mis-use of SWAT team tactics. Arresting a non-violent man with his family while he worked on his boat in his yard, who offered to turn himself in.

Your bring up a good point - why can't the military police our streets?

If you give a member of the military a RCMP membership card (hypothetical) - would that make it ok for him to arrest someone for domestic violence?

It does matter what uniform they wear. In Afghanistan that makes the difference between you being a POW and ending up being tortured in Gitmo for 5 years. Same goes with weapons. The streets of Canada are not "warzones" and criminals are not "enemy soldiers" (no matter how many War on Drugs TV shows you watch).

More and more, paramilitary policing is becoming the norm.

Are you living in Canada? FOCUS this is about the way policing in Canada seems to becoming more military like.

One reason, is the Criminal Element is now using more military like weaponry. I used to carry a six shooter 38 Smith. The bad guys were packing semi auto. A 38 cal, didn't always eliminate the threat. Therefore occupational health and safety said, we need bigger weapons. It's that simple if you shoot to kill and still have to fight the bad guy it puts the officer and public in danger.

[Captain Awesome]

No, police doesn't need armored vehicles these days.

Armored shield of a French SWAT team in Paris:

[Atomoa]

SWAT teams have been around for awhile. This thread states many times that in the rare occasion of a hostage crisis or terrorist act the police should obviously have access to equipment. That is not what we are talking about.

Prior to the drug war being amped up in the early 1980's (and all the money the police departments across north America got to buy military equipment) SWAT teams were used a few times a year, back when crime was much more of a problem than it is now.

The local RCMP have used their tank many times in minor raids and seizures. There is a dead man in Slocan because of over zealous military style police action. SWAT teams are used on basic arrest warrants in the US. There is a notable and sizable increase and use of militarized police forces across North America. This has gone on in the face of dramatically falling crime rates when compared to when SWAT teams were used 1/100th as much as they are now.

The Paris attack was the worst terrorist attack since WWII - and that was a world war. Using the Paris attacks as a example and control sample to gauge the daily threat level to Canadians and also as a example to justify arming civilian police forces to deal with that threat is fairly offensive and willfully deceptive in order to skew a point being made.

[Donald G]

To Atomoa ...

Once again you have clearly demonstrated that you have no idea in hell what you are talking about.

There are NO swat teams in Canada. We have Emergency Response Teams.

Outside of those at a Federal Level ERT teams are staffed by officers who routinely perform other operational police duties and are employed on ERT as required.

They are used on a fairly regular basis and when required, have the responsibility to see that everyone gets through the emergency situation with as little harm as possible.

[Atomoa]

.
Once again you have clearly demonstrated that you have no idea in hell what you are talking about.

There are NO swat teams in Canada. We have Emergency Response Teams.

http://www.castanet.net/news/Kelowna/15 ... in-Kelowna

The ERT is a group of specialized RCMP members who used weapons, equipment and tactics to “resolve extremely high-risk situations,” according to the RCMP website.

“It would be like an American SWAT,” said Cpl. Joe Duncan of the Kelowna RCMP

[Donald G]

Making a finding that the military is policing our streets based on the equipment available to the Emergency Response Team is like accusing a doctor of indiscriminately cutting someone open to deal with a ruptured appendix.

The objective of both is to save lives. They both do that well.

[Mark5]

After the RCMP were killed Mayerthorpe and on the east coast, I can understand why they would want this. It does seem a bit overkill but there is some justification. If the Armoured car companies can have armoured vehicles to protect the lives of guards and the money, the cops should also have the same benefits. There are a lot of nasty people out there.

[Atomoa]

After the RCMP were killed Mayerthorpe and on the east coast, I can understand why they would want this. It does seem a bit overkill but there is some justification. If the Armoured car companies can have armoured vehicles to protect the lives of guards and the money, the cops should also have the same benefits. There are a lot of nasty people out there.

Mayerthorpe involved standard hunting rifles. Those have been a threat since the RCMP were formed and they have done fine without tanks. Unless the RCMP are going to serve every single warrant with a tank - predicting when a random crazy is going to ambush the RCMP is a impossibility. The gun registry would have helped though.

Murder rate and crime rate at 50 year low, RCMP gets a tank. Peter de Groot not talked down and not allowed to surrender. Military operation in Slocan. One dead suspect. All the boys got lot's of trigger time and they even got to test out their night vision.

It's not just the equipment. It's the training, methodology and attitude that goes along with "militarized" police forces. Collateral damage is not allowed in civilian settings but in "the war on drugs/crime" militarized police forces behave as if they are a actual military unit operating under war conditions. Backread the thread for more citations.

[Donald G]

To Atomoa ...

Given your collective comments, you obviously have no idea in hell that the main use of the armoured vehicle is defensive; the extraction of injured people, prevention of officers getting shot and lowering the chance that the "suspect" will put the police in the position of having to use lethal force.

Given reality your less that knowledgeable comments are completely ridiculous to anyone with any knowledge regarding potentially lethal situations caused by others that have to be dealt with by the police.

[Captain Awesome]

There is a dead man in Slocan because of over zealous military style police action.

Nope. The dead man is dead because he was a dangerous person who decided to shoot at police.

He'd still be dead, but thanks to "zealous military style police action" he didn't take an officer or two with him.