Elderly driver runs into baby stroller

[Always Sunny]

As we grow older and wiser, logically we should become more and more proficient at all aspects of life. If age = experience, then an 80 year old should be a far more qualified driver than a 35-40 year old with decades less experience on the road.

However, when we read numerous news stories about plowing vehicles through store fronts (pick your example, there's plenty). Pin balling your van into 11 cars (http://www.castanet.net/news/Kelowna/11 ... ot-pinball), and now driving 20km/h below the posted speed limit and still hitting and dragging a tot in a stroller...I can't help but thinking that, yes, age can certainly be a contributing factor.

[monroe]

Sure you can take twenty 80yr olds and put them in a room and note that they all aged at differing degrees, but the unquestionable fact is they are 80 and have ALL aged, and lost a lot of the skills and reflexes they had when they were younger. Skills and reflexes that come in very handy when in care and control of an automobile.

My point exactly. Im not discriminating between the young and old.

The difference here is that some young drivers dont use their god given abilities either becuase theyre still learning or becuase theyre irresponsible.

Abilities such as: vision, dexterity, general awareness, etc...

The ELDERLY have a naturally diminishing skill set they cannot get back which should be retested in order to determine if theyre still competent.

[Randall T]

What some struggle with grasping is that there is no equality when comparing an 80yr old to a 20yr old, and no amount of whining is going to change that.

Sure you can take twenty 80yr olds and put them in a room and note that they all aged at differing degrees, but the unquestionable fact is they are 80 and have ALL aged, and lost a lot of the skills and reflexes they had when they were younger. Skills and reflexes that come in very handy when in care and control of an automobile.

It's just that for some it happened far worse than for others, but happen it did regardless so there's nothing discriminatory about addressing a fact of life!

Going by the argument Randall T is presenting regarding discrimination, I guess then we should allow 8yr olds to drive too because after all not allowing it is discrimination. Same rationale. LOL

Classic ageism attitude, and age discrimination according to Canadian law doesn't apply to those under 19 so we're safe from the 8 year olds.

[Randall T]

I think we can all agree there are pathetic driving skills displayed by all age groups. You can put the blinders on and obsess about one group, but the real issue is enforcement. We simply don't have enough resources in place to monitor how everyone behaves on the road. To single out any age group while ignoring the rest is not going to fix things. I fully realize the shortcomings of many elderly drivers but to say they are all incompetent because of their age is like saying all teens are dangerous because of their attitudes and all middle-aged movers and shakers are a hazard because they can't put their phones down. If you want to really fix things, then lobby for more enforcement and forget about the elimination of old folks' licences.

[Poindexter]

While new cars are easier to drive with a numerous cameras and sensors to help park I'm finding visibility is becoming an issue. Smaller rear windows and less window space overall seems to be the current trend. My elderly folks just bought a new SUV and a semi could hide in the blind spot. My mom who's 4'11" can barely see out the side windows anymore unless she cranks the seat to the highest position but then she can barely reach the the pedals.

Maybe automakers know this, if cars have become more reliable, make them more prone to fender benders and make your money in the parts department. New headlights and brake lights cost a small fortune not to mention bumper covers. Or maybe it's less devious and simply another situation where function gets trumped by form, either way it's a bad trend for elderly drivers who already find driving a challenge.

[Hmmm]

^^^^^ Please let us know when they are on the road "barely seeing what's around them". They should have BOUGHT A DIFFERENT CAR. Took me 5 seconds to think of a solution for them. TRADE IT IN TODAY!
PS, I'm horrified that they bought it and are driving on the same roads people I love are.

[LANDM]

As we grow older and wiser, logically we should become more and more proficient at all aspects of life. If age = experience, then an 80 year old should be a far more qualified driver than a 35-40 year old with decades less experience on the road.

However, when we read numerous news stories about plowing vehicles through store fronts (pick your example, there's plenty). Pin balling your van into 11 cars (http://www.castanet.net/news/Kelowna/11 ... ot-pinball), and now driving 20km/h below the posted speed limit and still hitting and dragging a tot in a stroller...I can't help but thinking that, yes, age can certainly be a contributing factor.

The problem is that these stories hit the news in grand fashion......but, it's still only a handful. We just don't take note of the daily accident reports of everyone else. What you are referring to is not statistically valid......unless you are referring to how funny an accident is.
I don't know the stats but will do a quick google.
As an aside, I insisted that my mother give up her license years ago when she started showing signs of problems. The classic "you don't want to kill innocent kids and families" and "take a cab...your savings on insurance will cover all of your cab trips" appealed to the usual senior's concerns about others and careful spending. She agreed and all was well. Others should do the same as people get into their advanced years.

[Poindexter]

^^^^^ Please let us know when they are on the road "barely seeing what's around them". They should have BOUGHT A DIFFERENT CAR. Took me 5 seconds to think of a solution for them. TRADE IT IN TODAY!
PS, I'm horrified that they bought it and are driving on the same roads people I love are.

Oh please! Maybe we should check with you before anyone purchases a vehicle since you have all the answers. I make an observation about new vehicles and visibility and you immediately jump upon your high horse, what a joke. My father who has poor mobility needs a higher vehicle that's easier to get in and out of and that limited their options to mini sport utes. Find me a new sport ute on the market that has better site lines than they did 10 years ago. Get back to me on that, may take you longer than 5 seconds.

[LANDM]

Ok, just found a really cool study done for a thesis by an SFU student. It studied the role of age and gender in intersection accidents. ICBC has fatality stats but this one was good because it was for more "everyday" accidents and was really well done and in depth.
As super quick summary would be:
Older drivers are more likely to have accidents at intersections.
Older males have a positive correlation with such accidents but older females have a negative correlation......they are less likely to have accidents than middle aged drivers.
Young have more accidents at night. Old have more in the day.
Complexity of the intersection is a factor with the very oldest but not the '70s ages.
The young age group (teens) and the old both have higher rates of accidents when turning and with certain other activity preactions.
Complete study at: http://summit.sfu.ca/system/files/iritems1/8498/b31035966.pdf

[Puddlejumper40]

Ok, just found a really cool study done for a thesis by an SFU student. It studied the role of age and gender in intersection accidents. ICBC has fatality stats but this one was good because it was for more "everyday" accidents and was really well done and in depth.
As super quick summary would be:
Older drivers are more likely to have accidents at intersections.
Older males have a positive correlation with such accidents but older females have a negative correlation......they are less likely to have accidents than middle aged drivers.
Young have more accidents at night. Old have more in the day.
Complexity of the intersection is a factor with the very oldest but not the '70s ages.
The young age group (teens) and the old both have higher rates of accidents when turning and with certain other activity preactions.
Complete study at: http://summit.sfu.ca/system/files/iritems1/8498/b31035966.pdf

^^^^
Interesting.

http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/ency ... 004013.htm

^^^Aging changes in the senses

From the link;

"You may be less able to tolerate glare. Glare such as from a shiny floor in a sunlit room can make it difficult to get around indoors. You may have trouble adapting to darkness or bright light. Problems with glare, brightness, and darkness means you may need to give up driving at night."

"Reduced peripheral vision is common in older persons. This can limit activity and ability to interact with others. You may not communicate even with persons sitting next to you because you cannot see them well. Driving can become dangerous."


With changes in the complexity of interchanges over the years and the increased volume of drivers on the road and the natural decline of certain senses AND the fact a lot of people have a hard time saying something has diminished with their senses, it's not surprising that intersections pose a real problem for a select number of elderly.

[LoneWolf_53]

Ok, just found a really cool study done for a thesis by an SFU student. It studied the role of age and gender in intersection accidents. ICBC has fatality stats but this one was good because it was for more "everyday" accidents and was really well done and in depth.
As super quick summary would be:
Older drivers are more likely to have accidents at intersections.
Older males have a positive correlation with such accidents but older females have a negative correlation......they are less likely to have accidents than middle aged drivers.
Young have more accidents at night. Old have more in the day.
Complexity of the intersection is a factor with the very oldest but not the '70s ages.
The young age group (teens) and the old both have higher rates of accidents when turning and with certain other activity preactions.
Complete study at: http://summit.sfu.ca/system/files/iritems1/8498/b31035966.pdf

I think you need to read this Randall T and then please come back and tell us how exactly it fits into your ageism charge!

From where I sit you're simply in denial regarding the realities of aging and it's effects on drivers.

Accepting that younger demographics have issues too, but ones that can be corrected, as opposed to the octogenarian group that loses skills and abilities that can never be regained, hardly qualifies as ageism. It's called fact pure and simple!

Regulators acknowledge this reality, ergo they make tests mandatory beyond a certain age, to protect the rest of us, while you would appear to advocate jeopardizing everyone for fear of hurting the feelings of said group.

It's people like you that contribute to the problem!

[Hmmm]

Oh please! Maybe we should check with you before anyone purchases a vehicle since you have all the answers. I make an observation about new vehicles and visibility and you immediately jump upon your high horse, what a joke. My father who has poor mobility needs a higher vehicle that's easier to get in and out of and that limited their options to mini sport utes. Find me a new sport ute on the market that has better site lines than they did 10 years ago. Get back to me on that, may take you longer than 5 seconds.

I hear where you're coming from, however my parents have had similar issues and have spent many a long day searching for the right car that will work for them. They have also traded in new cars that were later found to not work for them. When your grandma can barely reach the pedals or see out the window, but STILL BOUGHT IT, there's a big problem. Sorry but its true, just because its hard to find a SAFE car doesn't mean you settle for one that you can't operate safely.

[Randall T]

I think you need to read this Randall T and then please come back and tell us how exactly it fits into your ageism charge!

From where I sit you're simply in denial regarding the realities of aging and it's effects on drivers.
Sorry, I'm not and I never said age doesn't have it's effect on abilities. I did say it's not correct to accuse all elderly people of not having good driving skills because of a perception that you magically become inept once you hit a certain age.

Accepting that younger demographics have issues too, but ones that can be corrected, as opposed to the octogenarian group that loses skills and abilities that can never be regained, hardly qualifies as ageism. It's called fact pure and simple!
People of all ages who have issues that can not be corrected need to be dealt with. The elderly can have their licences revoked as well as the younger ones that just don't get it. I don't think I was insinuating that older people who have issues should still be allowed to drive because they have a right to. However, the ones that are capable should be allowed to retain their licences and not be targeted by over-reactors who think it's not possible to be over 60 and drive responsibly and safely

Regulators acknowledge this reality, ergo they make tests mandatory beyond a certain age, to protect the rest of us, while you would appear to advocate jeopardizing everyone for fear of hurting the feelings of said group.
In BC you need a medical clearance from a physician every two years starting when you turn 80. If the physician feels there is a serious issue, then the driver may face various testing from the DMV, physiotherapist, etc. You're making it sound like everyone after a certain age faces the whole gamut of evaluative tests. As it is, most pass the medical test and don't have to go for further evaluation. Mandatory skills and driving tests for all after a certain age, regardless of a medical clearance, would be discriminatory.

It's people like you that contribute to the problem!
That's a strange thing to say. If it was up to me half the drivers out there would be walking and most of them wouldn't be using canes either.

[LoneWolf_53]

It's people like you that contribute to the problem!

That's a strange thing to say. If it was up to me half the drivers out there would be walking and most of them wouldn't be using canes either.

No it's not strange at all.

The topic of this thread is "elderly" driver runs into baby stroller, not teenage, young adult, or middle aged, as you're trying to deflect the discussion toward.

You want to whine about the other demographics start another thread and fill your boots.

I'm concerned about the incompetent elderly ones that somehow manage to constantly fall between the cracks in the current system, and create havoc on the roads thanks to lost abilities due to aging. That's not a problem the rest of the groups have.

The system as it currently stands is broken and needs repair. I can't help but come to the conclusion that a large part of the problem is doctors being hesitant to put themselves out there by being more proactive where they note possible issues. Too many with a blatantly obvious lack of motor skills are still driving and they're sure as heck going to the doctor enough times for it to be noted.

Doctors just don't want to be the bad guy any more than many family members do, yet someone has to step up, and who better than qualified medical persons.

I'd also point out that there hasn't been a single thing discriminatory about the title of the story either for that matter, given that's what appears to be sticking in your craw.

I've seen more than enough headlines to know they use the terms teen, young adults, middle aged etc to describe who was the cause of some motor vehicle event so there's really little point getting up on a soap box about it given all groups get equal time. The reason one sees a lot of stories with "elderly" in the headline is because they manage to get themselves into the weird situations all the time that cause reporters and the rest of us to go "what the heck".

[Randall T]

No it's not strange at all.............that cause reporters and the rest of us to go "what the heck".

Let's try something else as my point doesn't seem to be getting across.

As obesity is on a rapid incline in Canada and affecting a surprising percentage of the population, suppose you are and you received the following letter in the mail:

Dear Ms. Lonewolf;

It has come to our attention from law enforcement that an officer witnessed you were having problems getting into your vehicle at the bingo hall due to your rather large girth. The officer also noted you had trouble backing out of the parking spot as your ample mass seemed to be hindering your ability to look behind you. As you may well be aware, obesity can lead to many other issues that could possibly hinder your ability to properly negotiate a vehicle. Consequently, and until such time that you can lose an appropriate amount of weight, in order to retain your drivers licence you are now required to report annually to our testing facility for skills and road testing. Please have a qualified driver accompany you to the facility as there is a good chance you will not be driving home.

Cheers, and have a wonderful day.
Ms. Little-Perkything
the DMV

Now two questions:
1) how would you react?
2) are you catching my drift?