AAP and the democratic deficit

[heather yeats]

Adding to the Westbank core is not going to make a vibrant, bustling city center (Calling it the Downtown West Kelowna Core is't going to do that either)

Until the mad couplet beast is destroyed or tamed, Westbank will remain the divided center that it is. Kind of reflects the image of warring factions!

In Holland, some of the roads are elevated , allowing for rapid transport movement in a crowded country. Would that work?
would it be so bad to turn both parts of the couplet to two way streets?

That way people traveling through Westbank would be forced to slow down. They might stop and shop here too if they feel they are not being pushed through the couplet by impatient drivers..

[GordonH]

Adding to the Westbank core is not going to make a vibrant, bustling city center (Calling it the Downtown West Kelowna Core is't going to do that either)

Until the mad couplet beast is destroyed or tamed, Westbank will remain the divided center that it is. Kind of reflects the image of warring factions!

In Holland, some of the roads are elevated , allowing for rapid transport movement in a crowded country. Would that work?
would it be so bad to turn both parts of the couplet to two way streets?

That way people traveling through Westbank would be forced to slow down. They might stop and shop here too if they feel they are not being pushed through the couplet by impatient drivers..

Since Hwy 97 is a Provincial responsible having it changed would cost taxpayers of BC a huge amount of money (knowing todays highway building cost I could see it being on 100s of millions). Of course it was the Province who built the stupid in first place.
About the only thing West Kelowna has going for it on this is your MLA

[jetty1965]

I like the basic concept of how Vancouver has evolved. It has a downtown that has grown up around the historical area where Vancouver first developed, but its city hall is elsewhere and reasonably within the centre of the city. West Kelowna stretches from Casa Loma in the far east to Upper Glenrosa in the far west. If business people, merchants and retailers want to put their enterprises towards the west end of that stretch, that's their call, but the City of West Kelowna should endeavour to put its city hall more in the middle. IMHO of course.

The first City hall in Vancouver was on Main and Hastings. the city grew around that. City hall was later move in the 1930s

there was a great fire in 1886 . Heres a map of vancouver

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Van ... r_Fire.jpg

Why does it matter to you so much where city hall is located? How often do you go there ? or is it a matter of not in my back yard? The staff called out for proposals to build a city hall, they received 4, this is the one they chose.

[heather yeats]

Jetty 1965 writes

"Why does it matter to you so much where city hall is located? How often do you go there ? or is it a matter of not in my back yard? The staff called out for proposals to build a city hall, they received 4, this is the one they chose."


The Governance Committee recommended a central location. The current City Offices are pretty central.

Westbank is not central. Westbank has congestion, poor access roads to the proposed location. ALR land opposite the proposed location and no sidewalks from Hwy 97 up to the Proposed location. Basically I don't think that the current proposal is going to benefit US as much as it will the developer.

Not a case of not in my back yard at all. Just practicality.

[Urbane]

The Governance Committee recommended a central location. The current City Offices are pretty central.

Westbank is not central. Westbank has congestion, poor access roads to the proposed location. ALR land opposite the proposed location and no sidewalks from Hwy 97 up to the Proposed location. Basically I don't think that the current proposal is going to benefit US as much as it will the developer.

Not a case of not in my back yard at all. Just practicality.

From what we heard at yesterday's city council meeting the current building (the rec centre) can't accommodate a second floor. The engineers have looked at it and said no. Anyway, it makes sense to have the rec centre adjacent to the high school so it will be nice to see it revert back to being a full time rec centre. So, is there another location, with sidewalks, with good access roads, with no ALR land nearby (if that's an issue for some), and centrally located that will fill the bill?

Also, do we want a civic centre complex that will include Interior Health and other office buildings or do we just want a city hall? If the city hall is to be centrally located should we be looking to create a new downtown area or do we want city hall to be in a residential area? Where is the spot that will be the most efficient and keep the largest number of people happy? There are good reasons to put the new city hall, civic centre, in the proposed Westbank Centre location and good reasons to put it elsewhere. Let's look at the alternatives and compare.

[jetty1965]

There aren't too many choices for not ALR land, West Kelowna is founded as an agricultural land.

People talk about the proposed location as being congested. yet others wanted it next to the donut shop, which is way worse, plus its less than an acre which is hardly enough for building large enough plus parking.

Once city hall is gone from the Boucherie center there will be more parking for warriors games, hockey camps etc.

I read in one study that a recommended size was 2 acres. The bartly road location which is currently occupied as a city yard has 1.45 acres. This area is primarily industrial but yes it is central. I dont think Industrial zoned is ideal for a city hall.

If you listened to the webcast it was mentioned by councellar Ophus that the server at boucherie will remain where it is as a back up. Thats a good idea. Disasters can happen.

The website is full of plans and studies and strategic priorities. like this one.

http://www.districtofwestkelowna.ca/Doc ... /View/1612

The whole idea of a partnership with a developer was to get the developer to pay for the sidewalks , road expansion etc. like they do with other subdivisions. at least that is my understanding.

I don't see access roads as being a problem. you can turn onto Gosset road from the highway go straight to the proposed location. Or you can access it from Shannon Lake Rd, or from Glenrosa along lower Glenrosa road. Or go straight down Elliot for those that live in Smith Creek. Its close to the main fire hall one of the most important facilities city staff supports.

The area around boucherie maybe geographically central but its not central to the bulk of the population. But again I ask how often does one visit City hall? Once a year to pay taxes? Its main purpose is to house staff to run the city.

We elect a mayor and council to make decisions based on studies etc from staff and consultants. Many of them ran being clear they would build a city hall. The current proposal is the result of 3 years of study and a call out of market sounding proposals. Its called vision.

West Kelowna is a unique situation with WFN right in the middle producing the bulk of the commercial. I dont see downtown being a huge commercial hub. but it would be nice to have shops and cafes that aren't closed and boarded up.

If you read the downtown revitalization plan you will see the plan is to widen Dobbin and return Main to a two way street.

I just see too much micromanaging. Having read the Royal lepage lessons learned from it seems that was a factor on its overruns.

I was a little blown away to be honest by one councilors comment to borrow 10 mill and build a new rec center and kind of wonder why that person seems so bent on keeping the city hall in its current location at all costs. Its full. overfull. the mayor said they are blocking doors to fit desks. adding on is not an option, bringing in another portable will cost 100 thou plus will remove more parking from the arena.

Also surprized about the comment that IHA serves only IHA. Not sure what that means. My understanding was there was going to whole bunch of services run for the public out of the building. Their current location on Carrington isn't big enough, from what I've heard.



i would be happy to read this old governance committee report you speak of if you can provide me with a link.

[Urbane]

^^ Excellent points jetty. I have no idea why nearby ALR land would be a problem either. I also have no idea why the proposed site on Elliott road is considered to out of the way and too congested at the same time. As for sidewalks, they can certainly be added and Elliott Road, I believe, is on the list to have sidewalks and other improvements. Anyway, I continue to lean toward a YES so far.

[jetty1965]

Thanks.

to add when i first rolled into town a few years ago from Vancouver . I needed to go to the municipal hall. I had trouble finding it. expecting to find it in the downtown area as soon as I entered town it wasn't there. no I had to drive 10 minutes down the road past all those strip malls. to finally find a tiny green sign which also included the arena on the sign. Turn right, turn left , turn right again , found an arena, wheres the city hall. O there it is at the far end of the parking lot. So I parked got out, then I had the fun of trying to find the door.

The Elliott road location I would have seen 1 sign as soon as I entered town, followed the sign 2 blocks and found the City Hall and the front door right away.

Not to mention, its only a couple of block away from the new bus loop. and its all flat. with sidewalks . The bartley road property is not that close to the bus loop there are no sidewalks, up a slight hill across from the highway, would not be good for someone in a wheelchair taking the bus.

The central location argument

by car according to google maps directions. it takes 15 minutes to drive from Bear creek road to the proposed site, about the same from casa loma, about 10mins, from lakeview heights, about 10mins from seclusion bay and 8 mins from Blue Jay road Glenrosa. 9 minutes for Tallus ridge, 4 mins for smith creek


In comparison it takes 15 mins from blue jay, Seclusion bay to the current site, 5 mins for Lakeview heights. 8 mins for tallus ridge, 10 mins for smith creek

Of course this is without traffic. Generally speaking the traffic is worse heading to Kelowna in the morning and from Kelowna in the late afternoon.

I am not sure who this Westside Governance committee, is , was. were they elected officials?

[voice of reason]

the problem with west kelowna is it is so spread out and split in half by the indian reserve. whatever happens people will not be happy

[occasional thoughts]

If Castanet is quoting mayor and council properly from their meeting Tuesday, it is apparent they just don't get it. I would expect a bit of contrition, maybe an apology for their anti-democratic behaviour in going to the Alternate Approval Process for the city hall, and promise that current members at least wouldn't try that dodge again. No way. It is obvious from the quoted comments of Couns. Zanon, de Jong and Winsby to tell me that they are unrepentant and unapologetic for what they've done and what they've put the community through. It gives me every reason to want to work really hard to defeat this project and this council when it comes up for re-election. I've said on several occasions that I would look to mayor and council to try to build consensus in the community rather than take a stance that accords with the pecuniary interests of various members, and then blame parts of the community for turning around and reacting. People should get that: I'm advocating a consensus try by council rather than it taking a side in a long bitter division. And there is no doubt in my mind that mayor and council are taking sides in the Westbank vs. Lakeview Heights piece of history and not behaving in a conciliatory fashion. It was a vital piece of building support for a city hall, they didn't do it, and they don't get it.

[beancounter]

I'm finding it hard to believe that there is still talk of the decrepit Westbank/Lakeview Heights debate. I've lived here 25 years and it keeps popping up like a bad penny; people really need to move on. I live in Lakeview and don't care if it is built in the proposed location - I haven't gone to City Hall in it's present location. There was plenty of opportunity to voice objection to the project and location in the last election. It's not like council was hiding their views on it then. There will be another opportunity at the referendum. Voting against it because you disagree with how it was handled is as short sighted as voting against HST because you didn't like how it was brought in. There is at least three years of work that is at jeopardy of being thrown away - for the wrong reasons. If you don't agree with the project, vote against it; that is your right. I'm fine with living with those democratic results. If you don't agree with the process and vote against the project because of that, it is a waste, IMO.

[occasional thoughts]

1. Process, et al, is important to some people.

2. And there you have why we live in and enjoy our democracy, meaning our respective opinions on what may motivate us to vote one way or another.

[zzontar]

Here's a chance for them to get away from too many strip malls:

http://www.castanet.net/edition/news-st ... htm#183627

A West Kelowna eyesore is about to get a major facelift.

Council Tuesday approved plans for a new development on the site of what was the Cattle Country Mall on Main Street at the western edge of downtown.

The site, vacant for years, will be the site of a new gas station and commercial mall.

Oh well.