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Re: Cyclist rushed to the hospital

PostPosted: Aug 11th, 2016, 7:36 pm
by 60-YEARS-in-Ktown
Dizzy1 wrote:In an urban environment, its not difficult to oversee a cyclist, pedestrian or other small objects.


*removed*
It bears mentining that the auto driver did not insure it was clear..before proceeding..
Urban environment..I call bs... .. Its called not scanning the roadway side to side ahead of where you are driving..

Re: Cyclist rushed to the hospital

PostPosted: Aug 11th, 2016, 7:47 pm
by Dizzy1
*removed*
50-YEARS-in-Ktown wrote:

It bears mentining that the auto driver did not insure it was clear..before proceeding..

I didn't mention anyone was to blame, and I did not mention it because the point of my post was not to cast blame - I simply pointed out that drivers need to be more aware and different driving environments as each environment posses different hazards. If that isn't constructive, I don't know what is. Maybe just pointing the finger at who's at fault is more appropriate than a highlight of extra caution?

50-YEARS-in-Ktown wrote:Urban environment..I call bs... .. Its called not scanning the roadway side to side ahead of where you are driving..

You can call it what every you want, just be glad that at least some of us understand the different challenges that different driving environments present and we're watching out for you as your peddling away on your bike.

You're welcome :up:

Re: Cyclist rushed to the hospital

PostPosted: Aug 11th, 2016, 7:52 pm
by Dizzy1
50-YEARS-in-Ktown wrote:Its called not scanning the roadway side to side ahead of where you are driving..

Scanning the road is common sense, my point is that scanning the road for a cyclist amongst shrubbery, signs, parked/moving cars, buildings, mailboxes and Lord only knows what else what is quite different then scanning for a cyclist out on the open road.

Again, be glad some of us recognize the extra caution required as a motorist to make sure you get home in one piece.

And again, you're welcome :up:

Re: Cyclist rushed to the hospital

PostPosted: Aug 11th, 2016, 8:02 pm
by GordonH
When driving within urban area your head has to be on a pivot, all 3 mirrors need to be setup properly oh yes and used. Another item needs to be used more that is signals, this informs those around you your intent. Far to many don't use their signals.

Re: Cyclist rushed to the hospital

PostPosted: Aug 11th, 2016, 8:17 pm
by spooker
From the DriveSmartBC website:

When the bicycle lane is marked with a solid white line up to the intersection: Cyclists in the bicycle lane have lawful authority to pass by on the right of an overtaken or waiting vehicle because there is a clear lane on the right of the vehicle for the cyclist to use. The use of mirrors and shoulder checks by the motorist cannot be emphasized enough in this situation!


and

Where there is a broken line marking the cycle lane at the approach to the intersection the driver may move over to the curb into the cycle lane prior to making the right turn in the way that most people are used to. Drivers doing so are making a lane change and must yield to cycle traffic in the bicycle lane before moving over! In this situation, the cyclist must wait behind the vehicle until after the turn is made to clear the cycle lane.


The other day I was making a left turn and almost got creamed by car who decided they weren't going to let a thing like a yellow light bother them from entering the intersection. At the last minute they saw me trying to clear the intersection (very slowly since I still saw the car coming towards me) and they graciously waved me through ahead of them.

Being in the middle of the intersection, the only vehicle moving, morning light from the side. Pretty sad state of affairs if you can't see me in my hawaiian shirt and shorts ...

Re: Cyclist rushed to the hospital

PostPosted: Aug 11th, 2016, 8:50 pm
by 60-YEARS-in-Ktown
I went alongside the scene this morning cop car still there and old couple sitting on the bench., i did not go past them so did not see the bike. Clearly the driver failed to see the oncoming bike from what I can gather.
And its likely age related.. Which I hate to say..as we have family members it could easily happen too.

So remember when biking..wear REALLY Freaking LOUD clothing..

Re: Cyclist rushed to the hospital

PostPosted: Aug 11th, 2016, 9:04 pm
by Dizzy1
spooker wrote:From the DriveSmartBC website:


When the bicycle lane is marked with a solid white line up to the intersection: Cyclists in the bicycle lane have lawful authority to pass by on the right of an overtaken or waiting vehicle because there is a clear lane on the right of the vehicle for the cyclist to use. The use of mirrors and shoulder checks by the motorist cannot be emphasized enough in this situation!


and

Where there is a broken line marking the cycle lane at the approach to the intersection the driver may move over to the curb into the cycle lane prior to making the right turn in the way that most people are used to. Drivers doing so are making a lane change and must yield to cycle traffic in the bicycle lane before moving over! In this situation, the cyclist must wait behind the vehicle until after the turn is made to clear the cycle lane.


So technically, at an intersection, the car (if in front) and the cyclist (if behind) would have the right of way since most if not all intersections would have a broken line (feel free to correct me) and a solid line would most likely be present when turning into a driveway then the bicycle would have the right of way.

Personally, I find this part almost contradictory ...

Drivers doing so are making a lane change and must yield to cycle traffic in the bicycle lane before moving over! In this situation, the cyclist must wait behind the vehicle until after the turn is made to clear the cycle lane.

Re: Cyclist rushed to the hospital

PostPosted: Aug 11th, 2016, 9:06 pm
by spooker
50-YEARS-in-Ktown wrote:So remember when biking..wear REALLY Freaking LOUD clothing..


But as so many drivers call out for cyclists to act better, where is the same call for drivers? We all share responsibility on the road, let's do what's reasonable and safe for everyone.

I hope when I'm 82 I'll still have the independence of a 72-year-old, but more than likely I'll switch to 3 wheels from 2 to make sure I don't fall on my butt at the wrong moment.

Re: Cyclist rushed to the hospital

PostPosted: Aug 11th, 2016, 9:17 pm
by LoneWolf_53
Let's not forget what demographic the driver of the SUV belongs to. It's the same one that sees members drive through local store fronts about once a month, so it comes as no surprise to me that she missed seeing a cyclist.

Re: Cyclist rushed to the hospital

PostPosted: Aug 11th, 2016, 9:20 pm
by spooker
Dizzy1 wrote:So technically, at an intersection, the car (if in front) and the cyclist (if behind) would have the right of way since most if not all intersections would have a broken line (feel free to correct me) and a solid line would most likely be present when turning into a driveway then the bicycle would have the right of way.


Most intersections in Kelowna have a solid line leading up to the intersection ... Springfield going west approaching Hollywood is dashed (first one that comes to mind) ... Bus stops have dashed bike lane markings ... and there is even help remembering at intersections like Ethel northbound at Springfield or Springfield westbound at Gordon where they have installed plastic bollards to make sure drivers are aware of the bike lane.

Dizzy1 wrote:Personally, I find this part almost contradictory ...


Drivers doing so are making a lane change and must yield to cycle traffic in the bicycle lane before moving over! In this situation, the cyclist must wait behind the vehicle until after the turn is made to clear the cycle lane.


The bike lane is being recognized as a special purpose lane to the right (not a "tiny turn lane" as one person asked me about years ago) so the car needs to signal to enter it, and make sure the bike lane is clear before making the move. If a bicycle comes up behind a car that has made this move correctly they can't *bleep* about it or get peeved. And the cyclist shouldn't try and scoot around the car to the left of it (entering the vehicle lane.)

Better?

Re: Cyclist rushed to the hospital

PostPosted: Aug 11th, 2016, 9:43 pm
by Dizzy1
spooker wrote:
Most intersections in Kelowna have a solid line leading up to the intersection ... Springfield going west approaching Hollywood is dashed (first one that comes to mind) ... Bus stops have dashed bike lane markings ... and there is even help remembering at intersections like Ethel northbound at Springfield or Springfield westbound at Gordon where they have installed plastic bollards to make sure drivers are aware of the bike lane.





The bike lane is being recognized as a special purpose lane to the right (not a "tiny turn lane" as one person asked me about years ago) so the car needs to signal to enter it, and make sure the bike lane is clear before making the move. If a bicycle comes up behind a car that has made this move correctly they can't *bleep* about it or get peeved. And the cyclist shouldn't try and scoot around the car to the left of it (entering the vehicle lane.)

I'm not referring to using a bike lane as a turn lane, but rather a bike lane crossing a turn lane such as they do on Enterprise or on Springfield - there the solid line ends, turns into a broken line in which the bike lane crosses over the (new) turning lane, thus according to your reference, the cyclist now has to yield to a vehicle making a right turn (lane change) if said vehicle is in front of them. My apologies if there for any confusion.

For example ...
Image

... the car (red line and letter A) is ahead of the bicycle (yellow line and letter B) - the bicycle wants to go straight through and the car wants to make a right turn - so by the reference you provided, the bicycle must yield to the car turning right. Just to be clear and we're on the same page.

Re: Cyclist rushed to the hospital

PostPosted: Aug 11th, 2016, 10:01 pm
by oko11
It's always the driver's fault. Look this way, check your mirrors, slow down, use your signals, don't get old...

Let's put some responsibility on the bike riders. Most, not all, do not obey traffic laws, wear helmets, have lights, etc.

It's quite easy to figure out who is going to get hurt when a bicycle and a car collide.

The old saying, "you may be right, but you're dead right."

Re: Cyclist rushed to the hospital

PostPosted: Aug 12th, 2016, 4:48 am
by spooker
Dizzy1 wrote:... the car (red line and letter A) is ahead of the bicycle (yellow line and letter B) - the bicycle wants to go straight through and the car wants to make a right turn - so by the reference you provided, the bicycle must yield to the car turning right. Just to be clear and we're on the same page.


Yes, if the car is ahead and has enough room then it has the right to make it's move ...

Along Springfield, at Cooper and at Ethel there is the fun of having the bike lane go to the left of the right turn lane ... cars have slowed down for me if we're getting too close to that crossing and they want to move ... the green is a womderful things that reminds everyone there is a conflict zone that needs special attention ...

Re: Cyclist rushed to the hospital

PostPosted: Aug 12th, 2016, 5:06 am
by spooker
oko11 wrote:It's always the driver's fault. Look this way, check your mirrors, slow down, use your signals, don't get old...

Let's put some responsibility on the bike riders. Most, not all, do not obey traffic laws, wear helmets, have lights, etc.

It's quite easy to figure out who is going to get hurt when a bicycle and a car collide.

The old saying, "you may be right, but you're dead right."


This is victim-blaming mentality, "you're going to die if you get hit by a car so it's up to you to stay safe" ... the onus of not hurting/maiming/killing someone is supposed to be on the party that is driving the 3000lb vehicle that can affect that ... we don't hold the muggee in contempt for getting mugged, "you should've just stayed home, going outside is dangerous"

How to Drive If You Don’t Want to Kill People

I'm not saying that cars are always at fault, but the facts show that the majority (over 50%) of the time the driver is the party that is at fault ... out of the three cycling deaths in the last year there are two that are pretty obviously pointing at the drivers actions while the third is taken to be the cyclist's fault even though we'll never know because we can't get their side of the story ...

I live with the memory of hitting a 6-year-old kid on his bike when I was 17 ... I remember it vividly ... while witnesses said I was acting correctly an it was found to be the fault of the kid being a kid ... I still feel/know that I could have done more ... thankfully this all happened at <20kph so there were no real injuries beyond scrapes and cuts ...

Re: Cyclist rushed to the hospital

PostPosted: Aug 12th, 2016, 6:09 am
by Lady tehMa
spooker wrote:
This is victim-blaming mentality, "you're going to die if you get hit by a car so it's up to you to stay safe" ... the onus of not hurting/maiming/killing someone is supposed to be on the party that is driving the 3000lb vehicle that can affect that ... we don't hold the muggee in contempt for getting mugged, "you should've just stayed home, going outside is dangerous".


I think it is everyone's responsibility to watch out. As I've mentioned before, when I moved to Kelowna my Dad's advice to me was "drive like everyone is trying to kill you." I have applied that to cycling and walking as well. And it has saved my butt on more than one occasion.

EVERYONE needs to watch and be aware; whether driving, cycling or walking.