Looking for injection site

[Frisk]

Let's not get too personal here, please...

[the truth]

lol you believe the people in charge know what they are doing they are one of the main reason why this who injection site thing is a gong show

[Necro]

gong show?

how?

[Donald G]

Any credible studies that I have seen have identified that Safe Injection Sites help keep addicts from dying of an overdose but do little to nothing for the community at large.

Contrary to claims sometimes made Safe Injection Sites do not prevent crime, cut policing and medical costs, increase the number of hard core addicts getting off of their hard drug of choice, cut the amount of violence associated to the drug distribution networks or make our streets safer.

[the truth]

Isn't it illegal to assist someone to commit a criminal act, like taking illegal drugs ?

great point ^^^^^^^^^ does anyone have an answer to this question

[Donald G]

dogspoiler wrote:
Isn't it illegal to assist someone to commit a criminal act, like taking illegal drugs ?

It is not illegal to TAKE drugs, only to POSSESS or TRAFFIC them.

Anyone who aids or abets anyone in possessing or trafficking drugs is guilty of an offence.

Other laws apply to specific illegal drugs and precursors.

[the truth]

got ya, fine line the injection sites are walking then in --MY BOOKS - so I see it like a don'nt ask don'nt tell, please come to are safe injection site too shoot up,but we do not want too know how you got your drugs , such as murder robbery,break and enter etc etc --wow

if its illegal to posses drugs why can they go shoot up in a safe injection site paid by federal or provincial money,how can the govt ok a place like this to open

[dogspoiler]

It is not illegal to TAKE drugs, only to POSSESS or TRAFFIC them.

Anyone who aids or abets anyone in possessing or trafficking drugs is guilty of an offence.

Other laws apply to specific illegal drugs and precursors.

How would one go about taking drugs if one did not possess them at some point ?

[Donald G]

Unread postby dogspoiler » 3 minutes ago

How would one go about taking drugs if one did not possess them at some point ?

I assume that that is why the law is worded in that way. Interestingly when mules "suitcase" drugs in their anus, vagina or stomach the charge is still possession and not consuming.

Also interesting that the drug, including alcohol, must be in their body (blood) to convict anyone of impaired driving but illegal drugs found in the body fluids are NOT adequate to convict the person of possession of an illegal drug.

Theory over Reality.

[spooker]

So for gardengirl who asked about VPD supporting Insite:
http://www.bcmj.org/premise/supervised-injection-sites%E2%80%94-view-law-enforcement
or something more recent and of a slightly different vein:
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/british-columbia/vancouver-police-warn-drug-addicts-to-use-insite/article14366192/

As for the "legality" question. The government, which writes the laws we have in the country, always has the right to sanction a person or place to operate outside of a specific law if the reasons are deemed to be rational and for the good of society as a whole. So while safe injections sites would never "traffic" you could see helping users take the drugs as dipping into the "possess" part of the law and any prosecution that might come from that belief has been covered by the charter that creates the entity managing the site.

Sadly the morality question will always come up because we see morals as black and white and think that ours are the only ones that count (or should count.) What we keep forgetting is that morality and reality are often at odds thanks to the selfish nature of ourselves.

One of the amazing things about being human is that we can keep two opposing thoughts in our head at the same time without going crazy ... pretty special that we can do that, no other creature on this earth has been proven to have the same capability.

[Donald G]

The following comment made by VPH is a bit ridiculous...

“We’ve just been surprised by this,” said Anna Marie D’Angelo of Vancouver Coastal Health, which operates the facility in the Downtown Eastside with Vancouver’s PHS Community Services Society

She is obviously not aware that the whole purpose of the Injection Sites is to guard against contaminated and/or extra pure street bought illegal drugs leading to serious medical problems, including death.

Anna D'Angelo is obviously out of touch with reality regarding the Safe Injection Sites. Someone with more knowledge should take her position.



.

[WheelWeaves]

Harm reduction is a wonderful theory, such as preventing the spread of bloodborne illnesses. However, if these people are not also simultaneously reducing their intake or in a rehabilitation program, all we are doing is preventing someone who cares little about their life from catching a usually treatable illness. If the cost of a safe injection site anually is less than treating HIV or hepatitis, fine, it makes some sense.

As others have said, all it truly does in its present state is facilitate a destructive habit, and almost encourage these people to continue their habit. Since they aren't being punished, what is the point? This does not help anyone overall..... Sad but true. If some junkie only concerned with their next high dies a few years sooner, I feel for their family, but we are not at a loss. There are plenty of warnings as we grow and live about the dangers of these hard drugs, and while I understand the power an addiction to opiates or meth or cocaine can have over someone, it does not invoke much sympathy on my behalf, whatever their reason for starting.

Rehabilitation and rewards for staying clean are the only viable solution, with harsh penalties for relapse....
Such a system would require significant overhaul of current resources and perspectives, but its the only thing that makes sense to me after seeing relatives and former schoolmates/coworkers struggle with addiction.

[Nooby]

I think I've mentioned this before in another thread - but I would encourage some here to read this book:

http://chasingthescream.com/

If anything, read the section devoted to Vancouver's downtown Eastside. You may or may not change some of your opinions, and that's fine - everyone is entitled to an opinion. But at least the book contains factual information from someone who actually did some hands-on research.

Also a good review of the book and comments specific to Vancouver at this link:

http://www.straight.com/life/491366/joh ... -war-drugs

[spooker]

Harm reduction is a wonderful theory, such as preventing the spread of bloodborne illnesses. However, if these people are not also simultaneously reducing their intake or in a rehabilitation program, all we are doing is preventing someone who cares little about their life from catching a usually treatable illness. If the cost of a safe injection site anually is less than treating HIV or hepatitis, fine, it makes some sense.

Due to the "randomness" of catching these diseases there is no direct correlation between the cost of the site versus the actual medical costs saved ... we can infer from the statistics with relative security that it is money well spent, just like vaccinations and not exposing the rest of the population to harm.

As others have said, all it truly does in its present state is facilitate a destructive habit, and almost encourage these people to continue their habit. Since they aren't being punished, what is the point? This does not help anyone overall..... Sad but true. If some junkie only concerned with their next high dies a few years sooner, I feel for their family, but we are not at a loss. There are plenty of warnings as we grow and live about the dangers of these hard drugs, and while I understand the power an addiction to opiates or meth or cocaine can have over someone, it does not invoke much sympathy on my behalf, whatever their reason for starting.

When someone shoots up in the back alley there isn't a social worker there to discuss the choices that led the user to where they are today and trying to lead them down a better path. At least in the setting of a safe injection site the dialogue can start. Putting a "value" on any life by saying "if they die a few years sooner, so what" really speaks about your own morality I think. If we try to do something good and fail, I will feel hope that society has a right to exist. If we sit by and don't even try then we fail as a society and I'm sorry for everyone.

Rehabilitation and rewards for staying clean are the only viable solution, with harsh penalties for relapse....
Such a system would require significant overhaul of current resources and perspectives, but its the only thing that makes sense to me after seeing relatives and former schoolmates/coworkers struggle with addiction.

How often does the stick part of a reward/punishment proposal work? I've learned by raising my daughter that carrots work much better and it seems that the research would also support the idea that punishment doesn't really solve the problem. Humans are thinking beings that will listen to debate and reasoning, my 3-year-old daughter proves that to me every day.

Here's a post about how the mindset you support is starting to change:
https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/where-science-meets-the-steps/201410/5-ways-we-punish-addicts-and-why-we-should-stop

[WheelWeaves]

And addicts aren't 3 year olds. They are fully capable of seeing the damage they are doing to themselves, the harm they reap on people around them, and fully capable of seeing the costs/burden they place on society, which is where in treatment they could be shown such things, and in turn for getting clean they have the option of housing, welfare, and eventual job placement so that they can feel human again. Those who fail at this, afer exhausting every reasonable respurce and aspect, should face a punishment, so that someone else who may value their own humanity more has a chance to recover.

My own morality is not the issue, i've seen many of these people lingering by my workplace, defecating where they please without a concern for who has to clean it up, instead of on a piece of cardboard and into the garbage can, by a door i have to use many times a day, like a wild animal. Some have just plain given up on anything except their addiction and feeding it, and my compassion only extends so far as to giving them a chance to recover on our tax dollars, but should that chance be neglected and blown, they can go back to being a wild animal or caged like one. As you said, they are thinking, sometimes rational, logical adults. There is very little in the way of rehab being offered as far as I know, and until there is widespread treatment available, i don't see the logic in providing safe injection sites, further detracting from the funds that could be used to create effective treatment plans/facilities. Any of them caught discarding needles in public places instead of into trash cans should be locked up until sober, as they clearly don't respect the level of harm they can potentially reap when people are accidentally jabbed by discarded needles.