New Okanagan Transit Authority

[TRIX]

Not to mention, the for Profit operating company based in Scotland is the Private partner that operates the Vernon Transit system also. A nice little double dip. Two weeks ago they also attended a shmooze fest in Penticton for the week with BC Transit. I would guess a possible triple dip may be in their future I they can have it their way.

[Dizzy1]

Some simple calculations. I have done some research this week and have gathered some interesting info. There was a Transit review done and recently completed. The findings are not easily uncovered. I spoke to a source in the know and they said that a similar review was done under Walter Gray and it was determined that the Cost of start up of a Municipal system is great. The procurement of buses and the initial cost of the infrastructure is substantial. I did some number gathering and gained information thru a community group called COTAA. The Central Okanagan Transit Action Alliance informed me that the Regional Transit system has Approx. 200 employees with operators making up the bulk of the cost. The operators make approx. $25.00/hr plus benefits. Approx. half of the operators are casual employees with out benefits and average 30hrs/week. Simple math is $25x200 employees x 2000 hrs per year = $10 million/year for staffing. The Scottish operating company is only responsible for Human resources I am told. They are not responsible for infrastructure. The Private partner is currently on a 9 year guaranteed contract with BC Transit with 2, 3 year options after that by both parties. I am told that each year of the contract is worth approx. $23 million/year. They have approx. 4 years left in the guaranteed portion of the contract with BCT. You do the math. It seems to me that Transit is a very lucrative business. Where is our money going. Oh ya. Scotland to share holders. This is the precise reason we need to develop a regional board to run the system and be accountable to the Budget and the people paying the bills.

The contract encompasses Kelowna, Vernon and Salmon Arm - Kelowna being the biggest portion of the contract - even all three properties combined doesn't equate to $23m.

They don't just pay labour costs - there are quite a bit more to it then you think.

[Dizzy1]

Not to mention, the for Profit operating company based in Scotland is the Private partner that operates the Vernon Transit system also. A nice little double dip. Two weeks ago they also attended a shmooze fest in Penticton for the week with BC Transit. I would guess a possible triple dip may be in their future I they can have it their way.

First is contracted for several properties across the Province - Victoria (HandyDart), Abbotsford, Chillieack, Kitimat, Kamloops amongst others. Vernon along with Salmon Arm is part of the same contract as Kelowna - as of the last RFP that went out to tender.

Unless I've missed it, I'm still waiting for you to answer the question I asked you - what makes you believe that a more local transit authority won't contract the work out to First or any other contractor?

[TRIX]

I apologize if I am not being clear. I have spoke many times of a municipal system with a board of governors representing multiple jurisdictions to make up the OTA. You are correct in saying that the last RFP was a tandem RFP with 2 properties being awarded at the same time. The contractor keeps the information very close to their vest as they want to protect their competitive advantage. There are other incidentals the contractor is responsible for eg. Tires and Managerial wages which are complete with enhanced benefit packages and of course PROFIT. Not just reasonable profit but "enough profit". As a regional entity that profit, Reasonable or otherwise could be used to enhance our systems of the Okanagan to work for the people of the Okanagan.

[Andy S]

Thank you for the numbers, as it is for me what it is as a bus person

[Dizzy1]

You are correct in saying that the last RFP was a tandem RFP with 2 properties being awarded at the same time.

It's not a tandem RFP - its one singular RFP. It used to be separate RFPs but since the last one went out, it is now one. Its also three properties - Kelowna, Vernon and Salmon Arm. Vernon and Salmon Arm have always been one RFP on their own and was operated by the same contractor even before first and has the same Union and Collective Agreement.

As a regional entity that profit, Reasonable or otherwise could be used to enhance our systems of the Okanagan to work for the people of the Okanagan.

The only thing that could realistically benefit the people of the OK is that a regional authority has overall control over routes, fares and schedules. The work will still be contracted out, maybe not to First but someone else. Translink has a regional governing body and they are contracted out as well - conventional and community contracts have been given to Coast Mountain and the HandyDart went to an American company just a few years ago. Just because the governing body is regional, that doesn't mean the profits will - and to be honest, there are no profits in transit - period. Contractors are simply paid X amount of dollars to do the job - it has zero to do with profits.

Another thing to understand about public transit in BC - if you cut out Victoria, you cut out the Provincial funding - Nelson Transit has been trying to get around this for years.

[TRIX]

West Vancouver is another region that is going it alone. The are also one of the most affluent communities in the province. Similar to the Okanagan. This model I am sure is being looked at by some as viable. As with any vison of something different, there will always be hesitation and fear of the unknown. In reality the cities already manage the routing and the infrastructure. The only intangible is the workforce. Successor rights would secure that workforce for the OTA and is another topic for discussion. Dizzy explains the Translink model would be used here but it is clear that the Translink model is a mess because of the private partnership component. The same model we have here currently and our system is also a mess without accountability, direction or oversight. The point I am trying to make is that there are better ways to deliver services into the 21st century and the politicians recognize this and that is why they are exploring options. I believe the voters of this valley made it very clear last fall that being out of the control of our system is unacceptable. Basran heard it loud and clear and that is why it is no coincidence options are being looked at now, 4 years out from the option to continue with the status quo.

[tsayta]

Trix, where have you been since 2006. Good stuff

[Dizzy1]

West Vancouver is another region that is going it alone. The are also one of the most affluent communities in the province. Similar to the Okanagan.

West Vancouver is nothing like the OK Valley.

The only intangible is the workforce. Successor rights would secure that workforce for the OTA and is another topic for discussion.

Your core argument is that the profits are going to Scotland, so its a very relevant point to this discussion that I still haven't heard an answer to.

Dizzy explains the Translink model would be used here but it is clear that the Translink model is a mess because of the private partnership component.

I said no such thing. The only reference to Translink I've given is the fact that their work is contracted out as well - which pertains to the question I am still waiting to hear an answer from you - what guarantee is there that these supposed profits will stay in the region? If you want people to jump on board with your suggestion, and don't get me wrong, I fully support it - these are the answers you need to be prepared to answer if its going to be a key argument for you.

The point I am trying to make is that there are better ways to deliver services into the 21st century and the politicians recognize this and that is why they are exploring options.

I completely agree with you, and this also applies to other aspects of Regional issues that Victoria needs to butt out of.

Also, in the Province of BC - Victoria (conventional and community services) are the only property that is not contracted out and run by the Municipalities themselves - and the only reason that is because its Victoria's front door.

[Dizzy1]

The contractor keeps the information very close to their vest as they want to protect their competitive advantage.

Seeing that they bid for a contract, why wouldn't they keep their bid to themselves? Every contractor does that. Contractors come, create a proposal - "this is what we'll do for you for this amount of dollars". Having said that, the RFP itself is public information and First, being a publicly traded company, their finances are also public information.

[TRIX]

The problem I have been having with figuring out the web of their finances is the use on multiple shell companies operating under the Scottish umbrella. It is absolutely their right to protect their advantage but that is the essence of the problem. Clarity is the key. That is why the public entity must be in charge of the profits. The people of the region need control of their systems via their municipal vote for politicians that are willing to explore the edges of what is or may be possible. I am not advocating for any private partner to be involved and I am not sure what Dizzy does not get about that. The agenda is clear, public transit should and must be operated and controlled by the municipalities they serve. Preferably through a board accountable to elected municipal politicians. That board is being identifying as the Okanagan Transit Authority.
The Private partner would be gone as it is in West Vancouver. Then the system can be truly directed by the region involved.

[Dizzy1]

I am not advocating for any private partner to be involved and I am not sure what Dizzy does not get about that.

I'll try this again.

The core point you have in your argument is that the profits (even though there aren't any) are going to Scotland (or where ever else for that matter) under the current system. My question is, in this proposal, for a local, regionally based transit authority - what is the plan or guarantee to keep this money from going to a non-local company? As an example, will the operations be run by a local entity such as Barry and Smith in Penticton, or even by the local municipalities themselves as in Victoria? If thats the case, is this a guarantee in this proposal, or more specifically, is this a core value in this proposal?

Simply saying that "it should be like this" is one thing, and again, I do not disagree with you. My only query is is this an actual part of the proposal? Simple question really.

[TRIX]

100% agreed. Under the current practice there are no guarantees. There would certainly need to be "core values" written into any new format to ensure the voters of the region are able to hold the decision makers accountable to the financing and operation of the systems involved.

[1life2live]

I attended the so called 40 year celebration of the Kelowna Regional Transit system last Tuesday. Not much of a celebration. Many reps of the managing partner, BC Transit and the city o Kelowna including Basaran. I did not see any other city reps and very few of the public. We were out numbered by officials certainly. Seemed like a photo op for the private partner to engage with the city of Kelowna. I wish we knew what was going on behind the scenes with the possibility of a regionally controlled Transit system. Nobody was willing to answer my questions. I also saw some media there with cameras but saw very little subsequent coverage, which is consistent with the absence of public engagement.